Wind Synth, Voyager RME, and other controllers

[fip]

hi all,

I'm new to the forum and wanted to say hi and open up a convo. I am waiting on delivery of a minty Voyager RME and looking forward to my first foray into a Moog synth as part of my sound palette. I've been a fan of the Moog sound since I watched Keith Emerson and other greats on stage throughout the 70's. not being a keyboard player, I never considered going this route in my days of playing woodwinds. I did jump into wind synth early and often. but this world always seemed limited to the digital side on the aisle. in recent years I moved from Yamaha's WX7 to an EWI4000/5000. I've played these through a variety of rack modules and have a decent range of sounds and all seem ready to basic response to the data my synth is sending.

on to analog synthesis. I know that the Voyager is a different beast. I have some questions about whether basic MIDI implementation is straight forward - will the RME recognize continuous controller data from the EWI to control (at least) volume out of the box or will I need to set the synth up from the ground up? are there tricks to working with the RME that others identified that I might want to hear about diving in here? one thought occurred to me is that an expression pedal might allow me to push around the mod wheel control while my hands are occupied with the EWI.

another area of question regards a keyboard controller. I recognize that the Voyager has plenty of strengths that only a keyboard controller can tame. I've taken interest in those offered by synthesizerdotcom and am wondering if any of those myriad controllers have advantage over others. I suspect the combo mod wheel/pitch wheel would be a no brainer. the whammy bar looks fun. I notice the Voyager has a TouchPad Controller that the RME lacks. is this something I will want to replicate in my setup? most importantly, will I need to purchase a VX-352 to be able to accept these controllers data?

I know there's a range of questions - but if any of you have any thoughts on one or another, it'd help my wrap my hear around how I might hit the gravel running. I'll continue to search the archive here. thanks in advance for anything you might be able to share.

-fip

[ummagumma]

am not familiar with wind devices, but surely you could use a couple foot controllers as well?

[stiiiiiiive]

Hey Fip, welcome to the forum!

You'll certainly be able to control any Voyager MIDI CC from your EWI. I remember reading someone using Slim Phatty with such a controller.

The VX-352 is an extension to provide the RME Voyager with CV inputs. That would allow you to use several expression pedals -or anything else that sends CV: photo sensor, pressure sensor, accelerometer etc.

[fip]

thanks ummagumma and hello stiiiiiiive!

getting ready to unbox unit. so the 352 will be needed for any expression pedal et al. if I went the keyboard route could I have gotten mod wheel data to the RME w/o one? perhaps via MIDI? just trying to get the big picture of what is ready to go on the RME as I jump in w both feet.

thanks!

-frank

[bichuelo]

Hey Fip, welcome to the forum!

You'll certainly be able to control any Voyager MIDI CC from your EWI. I remember reading someone using Slim Phatty with such a controller.

The VX-352 is an extension to provide the RME Voyager with CV inputs. That would allow you to use several expression pedals -or anything else that sends CV: photo sensor, pressure sensor, accelerometer etc.

An Etherwave Plus sends CV as well so you can send control information while you keep playing your wind instrument

Koma Elektronik's Kommander can do something similar, as well

[stiiiiiiive]

An Etherwave Plus sends CV as well so you can send control information while you keep playing your wind instrument

Koma Elektronik's Kommander can do something similar, as well

Great ideas! : )

Fip, out of the box, you'll be able to route some EWI's MIDI CC to the Moog, which should already bring some fun

[fip]

thanks for the idea bichuelo! its fun to imagine the dance required to handle a wicked EWI solo while using a spare limb to modulate the Etherwave's signal. Ian Anderson might have been on to something.

and thanks stiiiiive. good to know. I think I have a little homework ahead to learn how to get under the hood so the RME knows what to do with those CCs. the unit's fired up and I've blown a few riffs to see what I find. cool sounds - tho the breath control data isn't been recognized just yet.

cheers!

-fip

[stiiiiiiive]

Just find out what is the breathe control MIDI CC number and map it to the right parameter on the RME.
I guess : )

[JimF]

Hi,

finally chiming in on this discussion.

I'm a professional shakuhachi player who also uses electronics, and in the past I've used a Yamaha WX7 - gave up on it because it didn't respond nearly as well as my shakuhachi...

The CC mappings from a wind controller will work - up to a point. The problem is, with low-resolution MIDI, that there are only 128 values, and so the response feels sluggish/stepped. There are some modules (and presumably software) that will get around this - eg DSI Evolver (which I have alongside my MFs) will smooth out the MIDI controller info.

In my experience, though, the best way of working simultaneously with wind controller and electronics is to think about the possible gesturality you can use. Hands and lips are occupied with playing the instrument/wind controller, but you have other limbs/body parts:

- Feet. Use expression pedals providing control voltages going to analogue electronics (ie no quantisation of the voltage levels). The various Moog instruments, MFs etc are excellent for this, but by no means the only choice on the market. 2-3 pedals controlling some combination of filter cutoff, resonance, ring modulation mix, LFO speed, intensity etc can work wonders.
- Body. Someone suggested using a theremin, and it was noted that you have dance around the instrument. This really is possible - I do it as one of my performance forms. I use a hotrodded Etherwave and an Etherwave Pro, but an Etherwave Plus will give you 2 cvs and a gate. With a bit of massaging to workable voltage ranges (CP251 works well for this), you can control spatially a couple of parameters as well as playing your controller. You have to modify the response of (particularly) the theremin's pitch antenna (put a CD on top of the Etherwave next to the vertical rod - really!), and you have to get used to 'dancing' around the instrument as you play, but it can be made to work.

Hope these suggestions help a little.

Cheers,

Jim F

[JimF]

PS MIDI breath control is CC #2

Jim F

[fip]

thanks jim and stiiiiive!

I haven't walked away from this thread. I just wanted to have more to offer to the conversation before I did. it's been a crazy stretch, but I've gotten in some time to dig around more. I've followed a few lines of research - including more than a few deadends. I thought I'd be returning to this thread only with a few *better informed* questions. but I connected a few dots and it all came together.

jim, I feel your pain. but while the ewi will never have the infinite dynamics of acoustics instruments like your shakuhachi, the issue of low res MIDI has been cut in half. the ewi sends out "high res" MIDI by using 2 continuous controller channels - #2 and #34. the voyager RME recogizes both of these but maps them both to MOD1. this is lucky. because the pot remapping function does not recognize breath as a source, but it does allow MOD1 to be mapped to a range of front panel controls. a simple solution is to pot-remap MOD1 to master volume. there's a lot of expression hiding in how a wind player modulates their breath pressure (even with only 256 increments) and it is fun to hear it being expressed via these wonderful moog circuits. I've done this to good effect and am now gearing up to experimenting with sending MOD1 (or velocity attack) to various parameters to see what kind of expression I can leverage from this combination. I suspect sending these breath CCs to a filter cutoff will open a few sounds up to offer a really dynamic solo patch.

hoping to check back in when I get some time to push this around more.

thanks again!

-fip

[stiiiiiiive]

Cool!!