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Gaze into my Minimoog Power Supply crystal ball...

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Re: Gaze into my Minimoog Power Supply crystal ball...

Postby Blackout » Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:24 am

facon wrote:You'll find that a large portion of high end studio gear uses external PSUs. I wouldn't hesitate to own any of it simply because of an external psu.


i never said that high end studio gear is no good because it uses external PSUs. Im just pointing out that the original Mini didnt have an external PSU. And therefore the new one is not the same and not likely to last as long.

And i didnt say you should not buy it purely because it has an external PSU. The synth is incredible in its build quality and sound and its simply a beautiful beast reborn. I brought one without hesitation and i feel lucky to have it. Your responses are suggesting i said a whole lot of negative things i simply did not.

Its just not going to last as long if you use it the same way as the original. The PSUs are gonna fry. Unless you turn the thing off at the wall instead of at the front panel "power" switch like you used to be able to do on the original. No mention of this important difference to make the synth last just as long in the manual. And i think many users are going to fall victim to this, and the PSUs are gonna be burning out left right and centre around the world from normal wear and tear of running 168 hours a week. No power supply can run for 30 years non stop. Thats all im pointing out. A lot of ppl arent even aware the new re-issue has the "line-lump" PSU until they open the box and discover its different to the original. The magazine review i read didnt mention it. Hell i didnt know until i unpacked it. And then my heart just sank. But hey in this disposable world things arent designed to last the way they used to anymore, i guess i should just get over it. Worry about it later...after all a few years is like, forever away right, lets just live for now and make some music today...deal with the future when it comes. Lets all be Gen Y without a care in the world.

Just remember, your minimoog will sound thin and lack its magical modjo unless you use the ORIGINAL ISSUED MOOG POWER SUPPLY from 2016. Hell i had a guy at a Hifi Show try and convince me with a straight face that he could hear the difference between a $10 kettle power lead and a $1000 POWER KETTLE LEAD !!(yes it exists)...and thats just the power LEAD. So this should be a no-brainer...lets see, the later year/batch PSUs used different caps, the 2016 version had its caps made in Taiwan, they sourced the caps for the 2018 one from Korea. Theres obviously a difference....It has to be the 2016 one. You can hear the difference already...you know its true...youre getting sleepy...come to my Ebay store..theyre at a special price of only $499....come....
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Re: Gaze into my Minimoog Power Supply crystal ball...

Postby Hooch » Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:15 am

I should buy 1000 at a steep discount.
Then keep them in sealed mayonnaise jars
in the vaults of Funk and Wagnells for 75 years.

I'll be able to personally deliver directly to your door in
my GooGull flying car any where on the planet.
Only 3000 credits for Earthers.
Mars and the moon will have interplanetary and off world
delivery rates applied.
You are taking your Mini to Mars right?
Two sawtooth oscillators.
In space. Detuned.
Drifting......


That actually sounds kind of fun after I've typed it but
in reality I too had kind of a boohoo moment about the line lump.
Other manufacturers have made a point of internal power supplies
being a premium feature.
The Mini is about as premium a mono synth as has ever been made.
It makes no sense. It's not about price. It's already way expensive for
a lot of people.
My purchase wasn't going to be swayed by 2 or 3 hundred more
added to the price. I wanted it no matter what.

But also it makes sense if a big reason is stability.
The new Mini stays in tune after 5-10 minutes.
None of the old ones I've owned or used did.
You had to have headphones ready to tune it
throughout the evening of a gig. It's just what you did.

Now I don't even bother.
If I haven't bumped the tuner it just needs to be turned on.
It will come back in tune no problem. It won't be perfect.
But damn close.

In the end it may have been Moog just wanting to keep costs down.
It puts it in the hands of more people.
The testing and certs are expensive.
And these line lumps are better than average I'll bet.

You 20 somethings will be still using it or wishing you had never sold
like I did 30 and 20 and 10 years ago.
And I'll be there at your door.
My GooGull hovering off your pad with a brand new power supply
in a sealed jar.
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Re: Gaze into my Minimoog Power Supply crystal ball...

Postby Blackout » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:54 pm

and that Hooch, is all im really trying to point out in this entire thread...

That anyone with this new mini should be buying 2 or 3 spare backup PSUs. NOW, if you plan on keeping your Mini, because if this decision by Moog.

Or pay the price, later.

(and i do tend to agree with you, if this synth isnt "Premium" then tell me what synth is. And a "premium" synth with a line lump PSU is really quite disappointing.).
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Re: Gaze into my Minimoog Power Supply crystal ball...

Postby MC » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:35 am

Oh get off your external PSU high horse. Your crystal ball is cracked because you don't know anything about modern compliance laws, about engineering economics, or about history of external PSUs.

The regulations surrounding internal power supplies have changed drastically since the first Minimoogs went out the door over 40 years ago.

If the reissue D had used an internal power supply, it would by law trigger UL testing and approval before any production would start, a process which takes months and costs $$$$$$.

Spreading that $$$$$$ among the very limited production quantity of the reissue D is not economically feasible as it would jack the price out of the market.

There is no reason why an external PSU would make the reissue D any less reliable than an internal supply. I have 30+ years of EE experience in the control field and I can tell you that there are external PSUs dating before the Minimoog (old AB stuff) that are still going strong. I have a british guitar amp here dating from 1963 that uses an external power supply and my guitar amp tech with 30+ years experience with just about every guitar amp ever made says it does not even need a recap. The sky is not falling.

Today you can't have reasonable price without some modern sacrifices. It's a case of pick your poison and a balance between marketing and engineering. No amount of whining is going to change it.
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Re: Gaze into my Minimoog Power Supply crystal ball...

Postby Blackout » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:02 am

MC wrote: it would jack the price out of the market.



Funny. I just brought a DAB standalone radio for $49.95 with an internal power supply. Obviously its price was jacked up way high "out of the market" because of this.

thats great that youve had "line lump" power supplies running for 30 years. I didnt actually know they made them 30 years ago but there you go. I assume you own tons of gear that has a "line lump" PS and not one single PS has failed on you then to support your argument.

Because ive got 2 studios full of them and they fail ALL THE TIME. Probably one every couple of months amongst the 60 or so i have plugged in behind racks and around the place, especially if you include external server Hard drive rack cases and CCTV cameras.

i say again, my post is not meant to be a whine but more a heads up advice and warning to fellow Mini owners to "back up". :D (except you MC, because yours is going to last 168hrs x 52weeks x 30 years = 262,080 hours at least.)
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Re: Gaze into my Minimoog Power Supply crystal ball...

Postby Marzzz » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:03 am

MC wrote:Oh get off your external PSU high horse. Your crystal ball is cracked because you don't know anything about modern compliance laws, about engineering economics, or about history of external PSUs.

Blackout posted this over at Gearslutz also; it is very difficult not to resort to an ad hominem response, because he is asking for it. As mentioned, most people have the Minimoog power supply plugged into a power strip, so it will most likely never be a problem. Sheesh...
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Re: Gaze into my Minimoog Power Supply crystal ball...

Postby MC » Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:48 pm

Marzzz wrote:
MC wrote:Oh get off your external PSU high horse. Your crystal ball is cracked because you don't know anything about modern compliance laws, about engineering economics, or about history of external PSUs.

Blackout posted this over at Gearslutz also; it is very difficult not to resort to an ad hominem response, because he is asking for it. As mentioned, most people have the Minimoog power supply plugged into a power strip, so it will most likely never be a problem. Sheesh...


One boisterous voice does not represent the multitudes... if he cannot accept the testimony of people more experienced than him, even from a certified Moog service center, then no amount of explanation will be good enough for him and he cannot be reasoned with. I get tired of talking to brick walls.
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Re: Gaze into my Minimoog Power Supply crystal ball...

Postby Blackout » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:12 am

just because i posted something on Gearslutz does not mean im a crazy nut (like some) that post on there. Im over 40, have a wife and 2 kids, and run 2 recording studios. Youve never posted on Gearslutz ever? Your argument seems to be "Blackout is a crazy nut, hes posted on Gearslutz before...THERE ...that proves it. So ignore him suggesting that you buy a backup PS because you dont need it."

i dont believe that the Moog external line lump PS is going to last working 30 years non stop without failing. But you seem to think i am being "unreasonable" because of this? sheesh.

Feel free to believe that the PS will last! Some people will not take a helpful warning based on years of experience. You cant save everyone. All this post is...is a helpful warning and heads up to be aware of the situation. I think that is a very reasonable reason to post..to help others.

Cheers,
Blackout
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Re: Gaze into my Minimoog Power Supply crystal ball...

Postby breun » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:49 am

Blackout wrote:Are the Minimoog Power supplies available to be purchased separately from Moog?


They are now: https://www.moogmusic.com/products/acce ... wer-supply

Blackout wrote:how much to they cost?


According to that product page:

USA $79
EU $81
UK $83
AU $82
JP $82
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Re: Gaze into my Minimoog Power Supply crystal ball...

Postby Marzzz » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:34 pm

Well, that should help prevent any "blackout" of the Minimoog for the foreseeable future!

Now what I really need is a Minimoog dustcover. I don't want one that says "Voyager" on it....
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Re: Gaze into my Minimoog Power Supply crystal ball...

Postby captainkidd » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:58 pm

Marzzz wrote:Now what I really need is a Minimoog dustcover. I don't want one that says "Voyager" on it....


I've found dust covers online but all of them seem to require you to fold the control panel back down flat. I don't want to do that every time I want to cover it up. I did have one made from a custom cover shop online but I just SWAGED it and gave them some numbers. The material ended up being a little thinner so it doesn't work out quite like I thought. In fact it works better if I turn it around and use it. It would be nice to have one that was the right shape but this one works for now.
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Re: Gaze into my Minimoog Power Supply crystal ball...

Postby noddyspuncture » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:26 pm

Hooch wrote:
The new Mini stays in tune after 5-10 minutes.
None of the old ones I've owned or used did.
You had to have headphones ready to tune it
throughout the evening of a gig. It's just what you did.


I own four original Model 'D''s, service them and they all stay in tune well enough to use live.
In fact, I have used my first Minimoog live since buying it in 1982 - it's only ever let me down once with an open circuit glide control - no big deal, wear & tear and easy to replace.

Maybe you encountered old ones in need servicing or with faults..?

Regarding the external PSU - I don't know if this is the case because I've never seen one, but if they're one of those mini SMPS which sense and can be used on any supply voltage, then I would suspect they will indeed start getting issues down the line - simply because all SMPS power supplies will..! The old model 'D' internal linear PSU will run forever - needing maybe a recap or two along the way.
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Re: Gaze into my Minimoog Power Supply crystal ball...

Postby ummagumma » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:12 pm

I'm glad I found this thread: my D reissue is now running via a powerbar, which I turn off when not in use

thx everyone
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Re: Gaze into my Minimoog Power Supply crystal ball...

Postby sub guy » Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:25 pm

I am now unplugging mine physically after every use.
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Re: Gaze into my Minimoog Power Supply crystal ball...

Postby ummagumma » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:19 pm

well that is certainly better than unplugging it mentally!

:D
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