Voyager, what to do?

Sambeaux · Post by **Sambeaux** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:17 pm

Hello - i'm going to give you as complete an account as I can of this problem, so plese bear with this rather lengthy description. I'm looking for anyone who has experience with any of these problems, so I can begin to rule out causes.

I bought a Voyager EB #0048 from Woodwind and Brasswind a few weeks ago. It was listed as a b-stock, but sold as new with full warranty (which I sent in a week or two ago). The exact nature of why it was sold as a b-tock isn't clear to me, as it doesn't have any visible damage, but there was definitely something that happened to it since it was sold for $2200. It didn't seem to have any problems with it, other than OS issues. I upgraded from 2.5 to 3.1 soon after receiving it.

Now there are two problems that I've been encountering that make me worry that I might have a serious (hardware) problem on my hands. One is that there is sound of the last note played going very softly even when all OSCs are turned to off. This doesn't happen all of the time, but it does sometimes. I can't pin down the exact cause, but it is possible that the OS isn't installed correctly. I've installed v3.1 and the presets, but something went wrong as I can view the presets, but they don't have any bearing on which sound comes out. It's always the init. parameter patch, which doesn't change when I try to go through patches.

That's not a huge deal for me right now, as I don't need to work from the presets - I'm just waiting for v3.2 so I can interface with the Mac Voyager utility.

However, I do have a larger problem, one that I can't imagine is anything but hardware. I've had the synth turn itself off and start over quite a few times over the past few weeks. One of those times, the screen went completely dark (contrast got reset) and everything on the PANEL view was written in gibberish. That's when the presets stopped working and I subsequently reinstalled the OS - upgrading to v.3.1 from 2.5. I've had a few more of these involuntary restarts, although they've been less catastrophic since then, more like a normal power cycling where the sound parameters that I had up remained unchanged. I've realized that the cause has something to do with the panel with the pitch and mod wheels. The first, biggest restart happened when I was touching the pitch wheel. Lately, it's been happening when I come in contact with the screws just below the wheels. Usually there is a static electricity spark - when there is no spark, there is no problem. Last night, I even observed the LFO light go from the 1 hZ it was set to to a wildly fast speed before slowing down over the course of a few seconds back to normal.

Here's the real question I'm facing. Is this unit a dog? I've just sent all this info to Moog and asked whether it has been sent back for major work in the past. I still have 10 days left on a 45-day return from the store. Should I cut all ties with this unit while I still can? Or is this a common problem due to a loose connection/bad power? I'd love to keep my great deal, but not if I am going to be living with a lemon!

gd · Post by gd » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:08 pm

I would send it back, 2200 is still alot of $ and my fear is that you will always have concerns as to whether it will quit on you. There are plenty of good used Voyagers available that have none of these issues, be patient "your Voyager" is out there and waiting for you!

MarkM · Post by **MarkM** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:22 pm

The restarts sound bad. Send it back or get it repaired while in warranty. As far as the last notes fading, it almost sounds like you are trying to play over the release of your volume envelope. Shorten the release and see if that solves it.

Sambeaux · Post by **Sambeaux** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:08 pm

Thanks for the replies. Any input is good. I do know that the lingering sound was not from the release being set high. None of the controls on the panel have any effect on this sound - including turning the oscillators off! The sound was a steady, low-level hum, related to the last key played. Very low-level, but not low enough to go completely unnoticed. Of course, it won't do it right now, so I can't experiment with it. Anyway, I feel like that is an OS thing that will disappear when I get to do the update right. I'm more worried about the electrical problems. Is there any way this isn't extremely bad?

Unless I can figure out exactly what's going on, I think I'll send it back by the 29th (end of 45 days). Coincidentally, that's the day of the big unveiliing, so make it good, Moog.

Sambeaux · Post by **Sambeaux** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 2:49 pm

Check this response out - it was just a couple of hours after I wrote to them. We should all thank our lucky stars that we are dealing with a company that stands behind their products like Moog.

"The main cause of your problems is simple. There is supposed to be a
connection from the left-hand controller (panel with pitch & mod wheels) to
chassis ground, so that static electricity can be dissipated harmlessly.
Clearly this ground connection is missing or has failed. The result is that
when you discharge static electricity into the left-hand controller (LHC),
the charge is jumping to the digital board's power line. This is a rare
scenario but I have seen it before.
Now, it will be no problem to correct the grounding issue; my only worry is
that since this has happened repeatedly there may have been some damage to
the digital board as a result of being zapped multiple times.
Now about what to do:
I don't think you have a lemon, because the main problem is simple and
correctable. If any damage has occurred to the digital board, it would be
covered by our warranty since it is clearly not your fault; if the ground
connection was as it should be then there would be no static shock problem.
So, the best course I think would be to send it in to us for a full
check-up. I can correct the LHC grounding and look over the digital board
to make sure everything is OK, and if necessary replace the board at no cost
to you. All you would need to cover is shipping to our factory; we will pay
the return freight.
If you would like to do this, I will need your full name and correct
shipping address, and a contact phone number. I can then issue an RMA
number for the return, which I will send to you along with our shipping
information.
Let me know how you would like to proceed. I apologise for the
inconvenience you have had and I assure you that everything can be set
right. We can probably update the OS to v3.2 while it is here in the shop,
also."

Kind regards,

Amos Gaynes
Service Technician,
Moog Music Inc.

monads · Post by **monads** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 2:30 am

Sambeaux wrote:We can probably update the OS to v3.2 while it is here in the shop,
also."

Kind regards,

Amos Gaynes
Service Technician,
Moog Music Inc.

Cool, they'll even update your unit to v3.2. What about the rest of us? This really pisses me off being I already paid for the editor and can't use certain features because of v3.2.

RL · Post by RL » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:00 am

This really pisses me off

Stay cool Monads, you can download the beta here:
www.moogmusic.de/index2.html

DavidC · Post by **DavidC** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:02 am

Now there are two problems that I've been encountering that make me worry that I might have a serious (hardware) problem on my hands. One is that there is sound of the last note played going very softly even when all OSCs are turned to off.

I have experienced something similar with my Voyager, but it can be easily remedied. Let me explain,

When you say "all OSC's are turned to off", obviously you are referring to the on/off switches in the mixer section that adds (switch = on) or removes (swich = off) the signal from each corresponding oscillator from the mixer input.

Technically speaking, when the Voyager is powered up all 3 Oscillators are "on" all of the time and they can't be "turned to off". The switches in the Mixer section determine which of the 3 Oscillator's waveforms will be added to the mix that is sent on to the VCF, the VCA, and the output.

For example, if the "Oscillator 1 switch" in the Mixer section is set to "off", Oscillator 1 continues to generate a signal, however the switch prevents the signal from passing through the mixer. Thus, Osc 1's signal will be absent from the output as if Oscillator 1 really was turned "off".

Now assume that the Voyager is powered up, yet no key on the keyboard is depressed. All 3 oscillators are always on and are always generating a signal with a specific pitch. This pitch (of all 3 Oscillators) is dependent upon the last key that was depressed. (If you want proof, plug your amp cable into the "Mixer Out/Filter In" jack.)

Thus, when you hear this faint sound of the last note that was played, what you are hearing is the sound of the oscillators bleeding through the mixer and the VCA. This is a problem because the oscillator signal(s) shouldn't bleed through for at least 2 reasons: 1) the oscillator switches in the mixer section are off and 2) because with no key depressed (no gate signal), the VCA should also be closed. Thus, there should be no output.

I can hear the oscillators faintly bleed through my Voyager if I set the output volume of my Voyager too low and the gain on my amp too high. (I think the output volume on my Voyager was set to around "2" or less (on a scale of "10"). However, if I raise the volume on my Voyager and then adjust my amp accordingly this "bleed through" disappears and is no longer audible.

I have discussed this problem with Moog. They also recommend setting the output volume of the Voyager as high as possible since this also maximizes the signal to noise ratio. Thus, I try to keep my Voyager's output volume pot set to "7" or "8" out of a maximum setting of "10" and I adjust my amp accordingly.

GregAE · Post by **GregAE** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:53 am

monads wrote:
Sambeaux wrote:We can probably update the OS to v3.2 while it is here in the shop,
also."

Kind regards,

Amos Gaynes
Service Technician,
Moog Music Inc.
Cool, they'll even update your unit to v3.2. What about the rest of us? This really pisses me off being I already paid for the editor and can't use certain features because of v3.2.

Moog should be releasing the OS3.2 update soon, along with the updated V2.0 Editor and all six sound banks. I think they were delayed because of the preparations leading up to the Musik Messe.

Have patience, I think you will be pleased.

Greg

monads · Post by **monads** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:34 pm

Thanks RL and Greg for your support and understanding. I don't have a problem with beta releases as long as what's documented. In all honestly all I really want to do at the moment is to be able to quickly dump/organize my patches in the editor and send them to the voyager's 6 banks. the editor makes it easy to do this. once this was done, I wasn't planning on using the editor and reverting back to v3.1 once all bugs were sorted out. specially if there's still issues with v3.2. that's all I wanted to do

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm being too impatient. The bank mgmt. feature was announced and released last year. Updated editor has been available on mac for a few months now. But still, I can't use the two together seamlessly. Not that big of an issue, once I get the above all sorted out.

GregAE · Post by **GregAE** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:23 pm

monads wrote:Thanks RL and Greg for your support and understanding. I don't have a problem with beta releases as long as what's documented. In all honestly all I really want to do at the moment is to be able to quickly dump/organize my patches in the editor and send them to the voyager's 6 banks. the editor makes it easy to do this. once this was done, I wasn't planning on using the editor and reverting back to v3.1 once all bugs were sorted out. specially if there's still issues with v3.2. that's all I wanted to do I hope it doesn't sound like I'm being too impatient. The bank mgmt. feature was announced and released last year. Updated editor has been available on mac for a few months now. But still, I can't use the two together seamlessly. Not that big of an issue, once I get the above all sorted out.

OS 3.2 and the V2.0 Editor does work seemlessly. Rudi and Mark did a terrific job making this work, and new features have been added to enhance the Voyager experience. You will be pleased. The folks at Moog Music just need a little more time to get the engineering approvals and paperwork done to release it - this is industry-standard software practice. Once the Musik Messe is over, I anticpate this will happen quickly.

Greg