Faulty TI chips in Voyager Old School?

Tips and techniques for Minimoog Analog Synthesizers
Wurlitzer
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Faulty TI chips in Voyager Old School?

Post by Wurlitzer » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:18 pm

A year ago, Moog recognised a problem with their Voyagers, from specific batches. They didn't mention the Voyager Old School, but mine is exhibiting the exact problems mentioned (and has been doing so for more than a year). The analog boards on all Voyagers are the same, whether it's an Old School or a regular Voyager.

Closest Moog tech for me is in Sweden, and sending that synth by mail is a daunting task, not to mention expensive with the repair cost included.

I read somewhere that the problem was due to faulty Texas Instrument chips.
Now, I have a B.Sc. in electrical engineering, and good soldering skills, so I'm investigating the possibility of fixing this myself.

Can Moog tell which TI chips are from the bad batch? I made a list of all the TI chips on the analog board:

5x TL074ACN DIP-14 U8, U30, U79, U41, U67
1x LM339N DIP-14 U13
6x CD4053BE DIP-16 U28, U32, U??, U2, U16, U39
7x CD4052BE DIP-16 U29, U51, U36, U7, U24, U15, U12
1x CD4013BE DIP-14 U44
6x TL072CP DIP-8 U70, U69, U72, U60, U53, U81
2x RC4558P DIP-8 U35, U26
1x TL064ACN DIP-14 U17
3x LM348N DIP-14 U73, U55, U68
3x TL062CP DIP-8 U47, U22, U14
1x CD4016BE DIP-14 U46
8x CD4051BE DIP-16 U11, U5, U4, U10, U18, U23, U1, U9
3x LM324AN DIP-14 U3, U42, U37
1x CD4066BE DIP-14 U54

Total: 48 TI chips.


Does Moog know which subset of those chips are bad?

Thank you.

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paramnesia
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Re: Faulty TI chips in Voyager Old School?

Post by paramnesia » Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:52 pm

see this thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21943&start=45

and also muffwiggler comments https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewt ... b924fce4fc

Dear Registered Owner of the Minimoog Voyager:

This is a follow-up to the letter I sent on January 19th. First, I want to thank you all for the very positive response we have received. As you can see, we take the quality of our products and our service to you very seriously. The problem stated in the January letter has only become apparent in the last few months, but we are committed to doing what is necessary to rectify it.

Minimoog Voyager owners are as passionate about their instrument as we are. Not surprisingly, following the January letter, our Service Department has received numerous calls. However, 90% of these inquiries have been unnecessary and so I’d like to clarify the following:

The problem stated in the January letter only affects Minimoog Voyagers built between mid-2010 and January 2013 with the following serial numbers: Select Series 829-1724, Performer 2990-3445, Electric Blue 1506-2075, RME 1330-1925, XL 1-545, and Lunar Select Series 1-57. If your Minimoog Voyager is not within this serial number range, you should not expect these issues and we would appreciate it if you do not unnecessarily burden our small Service Staff with a call.

If your Minimoog Voyager is not exhibiting problems, then there is no need for you to be concerned. We are confident that the issues previously identified have already materialized in 99% of the instruments that will experience the problem. Therefore, if you are not experiencing problems currently, you should not expect to in the future.

The problem identified in the January letter is more prevalent in countries with 220V power systems. Those countries with 110/120V power, like the USA and Japan, have less cause for concern.

And finally, if you have a Minimoog Voyager within the above serial number range and it is exhibiting an issue unrelated to those stated in the January letter, then we will handle it for you, but it will be serviced outside of any warranty.
Thank you for being our customer.

Sincerely,
Michael Adams
President Moog Music Inc.
Sub37TE V1.2 / 4 X CP-251, 3 x MF-104M, MF-102, MF-107, MF-108M, 4 x Mother32 + 5 x 104HP Eurorack, Windows 7 - 64 Bit | Ableton Live 9.5 + MaxMSP https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/458782

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latigid on
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Re: Faulty TI chips in Voyager Old School?

Post by latigid on » Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:54 am

From memory, it was to do with the 4000 series CMOS, perhaps the 4051? I think forum user RL (Rudi Lindhardt) had some advice here. Perhaps search the forum using each chip code as a keyword?

Have you contacted Moog about it yet? Would an option be to remove the analogue board yourself and ship it well wrapped up?

Best of luck and I hope you get yours sorted. DIP can be easily replaced if you clip off the package leads and remove each pin one by one (if you must go the DIY route). YMMV!

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Don Solaris
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Re: Faulty TI chips in Voyager Old School?

Post by Don Solaris » Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:31 am

To the OP: As an owner of Old School (serial No 500) i can confirm this problem is present there as well. I already had two malfunctions in the unit. Luckily i fixed them the same day. But that's because i was given access to schematic which still isn't avail to the public. So unfortunately you will have to send the unit to the service.

Just figured out you're in Sweden. Dude you have a full Moog service out there! You should be thankful It's not on the other part of Europe. :D
Voyager Old School serial:500
Moog Minimoog serial:3438

Wurlitzer
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Re: Faulty TI chips in Voyager Old School?

Post by Wurlitzer » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:54 pm

Thanks guys – useful info.

I had already sent it for repair in 2013, when the filter envelope generator broke. I'm in Denmark (reason why I said Sweden was closest official tech), so I just went to the local synth repair shop. He told me he had a hard time tracking the problem down, and it cost me ~400$. I can see that he replaced U29 and U44.

Then in 2014 the mod bus broke, and sound was only coming from left channel (probably filter related). So used it in mono with one mod bus for the time being.

Then in february 2015, Moog sent the mail about recognising the problem. However, it didn't mention the Old School as being affected. Damn. But when mine started acting as described in the mail, what else could it be, right?

paramnesia wrote:see this thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21943&start=45

In that thread, a guy says he's got a mail from Moog confirming that Old Schools are affected – his serial number is very close to mine as well. Good to know.

latigid on wrote:I think forum user RL (Rudi Lindhardt) had some advice here.

This led me to know that U51 (4052) is the culprit behind the 4-pole filter problem. Symptom is sound only out of left channel.

latigid on wrote:Would an option be to remove the analogue board yourself and ship it well wrapped up?

Good idea – didn't think about that. That is definitely the way to go, if not DIY.

Don Solaris wrote:Luckily i fixed them the same day. But that's because i was given access to schematic which still isn't avail to the public. So unfortunately you will have to send the unit to the service.

I might send the board to Sweden, as just sending the analog board is not too bad. However, it seems that the 4000 series CMOS are the culprits, by reading on the forum. This makes it easier to track down. It is tempting to go the DIY route – especially after that 400$ repair the first time.

But investigating that problem also leads me to think that the Moog tech in Sweden wouldn't break a sweat repairing it. Even better if I could just get away with sending the analog board.

EMwhite
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Re: Faulty TI chips in Voyager Old School?

Post by EMwhite » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:09 am

I owned an older Old School, serial number in the mid-300s. Never had an issue; I loved that thing...

... but traded 'up' to a Voyager Select and was struck by the Ti chip issue. Moog replaced the Analog and I swapped it out, worked fine, cost me nothing except for shipping to them.

You should do two things:

1. contact Moog and arrange for them to do swap back or repair for your analog board (aka, remove and mail them your board)

2. appeal to them for a refund for your prior repair. I'll bet that they will honor this considering that your Old School was faulty in the first place and the repair may have been required due to issue with faulty chips in the first place.

I no longer have a Voyager but do have a Minitaur, a set of Taurus pedal and a few Moogerfoogers and some Minifoogerzs. Hopefully, Moog will do right for you; they always have for me.

(intersted to know how it works out for you)
'76 Minimoog, Taurus 3, Oberheim FVS + Son of 2-voice; Sequential ProOne; Juno 106; Moog Model 15; Kurzweil 250; Hammond M3; and a handful of Fender Basses Flickr!

Wurlitzer
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Re: Faulty TI chips in Voyager Old School?

Post by Wurlitzer » Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:40 am

Thanks for this optimistic post. I contacted the Swedish Moog tech – I'll keep you posted.
I would be so happy if they could swap/repair the board free of charge, that I wouldn't even care about a refund from the first repair! :)

derterper
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Re: Faulty TI chips in Voyager Old School?

Post by derterper » Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:37 pm

Hi !
i've got a moog voyager old school bought in mid 2010. The unit first got a problem with the glide (not working anymore) in 2011, then the 3 OSC died in 2013. I fixed in at the official Moog service center in France (changing the full Analog Board) for more than 600 €, waiting for almost one year for moog to ship the board.
Then today i switch on the moog, and the 3 OSC died AGAIN ?!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

When the unit is cold (just after the power is switched on) i can hear the 3 OSC, then the pitch goes up until reaching a Upper than audio rate.

Is it possible to get schematics or a service manual, i can't pay 600€ and wait months for a new analog board that will die again in less than 3 years.
i think the first analog board was using these faulty IC, and the new one is also concerned with theses faulty IC... !

I can troubleshoot & change IC myself, as i've built a lot of eurorack modules, including SMT ones. But i would definitely need a service manual.

Any help appreciated.


Thanks !

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Nordlicht
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Re: Faulty TI chips in Voyager Old School?

Post by Nordlicht » Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:03 am

Hi guys,

I'm also an owner of a Voyager OS, bought it second hand, in mint and full working condition. The previous owner said that the main board was already replaced, because of the well-known chip issue.

My question: is it possible to clearly identify, if my OS actually has the "new" board installed (just by looking at it)?

Thanks in advance and good luck to all of you who still have problems with that!
https://www.spektralfarben-music.com

KAWAI ES7, Uhl X3-2, Korg Kronos2-61, Minimoog Voyager OS, Nord Lead A1 and 2X Ltd. Ed., Korg Pa3XLe, Native Ultimate Komplete 10 Ultimate, Roland TD-4 drum set

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RL
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Re: Faulty TI chips in Voyager Old School?

Post by RL » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:35 pm

Nordlicht wrote:Hi guys,

I'm also an owner of a Voyager OS, bought it second hand, in mint and full working condition. The previous owner said that the main board was already replaced, because of the well-known chip issue.

My question: is it possible to clearly identify, if my OS actually has the "new" board installed (just by looking at it)?

Thanks in advance and good luck to all of you who still have problems with that!

Hallo Nordlicht,
tell me the serial number and I will tell you whether I repaced the board.

Rudi

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Nordlicht
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Re: Faulty TI chips in Voyager Old School?

Post by Nordlicht » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:05 am

RL wrote:
Hallo Nordlicht,
tell me the serial number and I will tell you whether I repaced the board.

Rudi


Hallo Rudi,

my serial no. is 0573.

Thanks und danke :)
https://www.spektralfarben-music.com

KAWAI ES7, Uhl X3-2, Korg Kronos2-61, Minimoog Voyager OS, Nord Lead A1 and 2X Ltd. Ed., Korg Pa3XLe, Native Ultimate Komplete 10 Ultimate, Roland TD-4 drum set

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RL
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Re: Faulty TI chips in Voyager Old School?

Post by RL » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:22 am

Nordlicht wrote:my serial no. is 0573.


Hallo Nordlicht,
der OS war das erste Mal Februar 2012 bei mir. Da habe ich ein defektes Chip gewechselt.
Dann, als er im November 2013 wieder hier wegen eines defekten Chips war, habe ich das Analog-Board gewechselt.
Also keine Bange... dein OS hat ein neues Board.
Grüße,
Rudi

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Nordlicht
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Re: Faulty TI chips in Voyager Old School?

Post by Nordlicht » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:29 am

RL wrote:
Nordlicht wrote:my serial no. is 0573.


Hallo Nordlicht,
der OS war das erste Mal Februar 2012 bei mir. Da habe ich ein defektes Chip gewechselt.
Dann, als er im November 2013 wieder hier wegen eines defekten Chips war, habe ich das Analog-Board gewechselt.
Also keine Bange... dein OS hat ein neues Board.
Grüße,
Rudi


Moin Rudi,

vielen Dank für die prompte Rückmeldung. Da kann ich ja definitv beruhigt sein (wobei ich aber auch den Aussagen des Vorbesitzers voll und ganz vertraut habe) :)

The Voyager OS is such a fantastic sounding, pretty and generally well-manufactured instrument - I'm always happy to switch it on and and to really "feel" this unique and powerful sound.
It's an instrument with a soul :)

Alf
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KAWAI ES7, Uhl X3-2, Korg Kronos2-61, Minimoog Voyager OS, Nord Lead A1 and 2X Ltd. Ed., Korg Pa3XLe, Native Ultimate Komplete 10 Ultimate, Roland TD-4 drum set

Newmoog
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Re: Faulty TI chips in Voyager Old School?

Post by Newmoog » Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:40 pm

derterper wrote:When the unit is cold (just after the power is switched on) i can hear the 3 OSC, then the pitch goes up until reaching a Upper than audio rate.

Did you fix this problem in the end? Was it really affecting all three oscillators or just one of them?

dasystem
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Re: Faulty TI chips in Voyager Old School?

Post by dasystem » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:32 pm

After years of use (studio only) this Rme crapped out. I love my sub37, Etherwave, and micromoog but this voyager isn't worth it. I refuse to pay for shipping and repair for a known issue that should be a recall. So it's for sale Rme with all expansion modules.

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