Modulation Busses section question

Tips and techniques for Minimoog Analog Synthesizers
ColorForm2113
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Re: Modulation Busses section question

Post by ColorForm2113 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:16 pm

I tested this too, and I got very different results from the Pedal buss and filter envelope. Which actually was kinda cool, specially when used together. The pedal buss opens the filter about half of what the envelope does
My modular so far: Q104, Q106 x2, Q107, Q108, Q109 x2 , Q116, Q118, Q127 w/Q140, Q130, STG Wave Folder, Mixer and Mankato playing with Moog Voyager, VX-351, CP-251, MF-104M x2 ( STEREO!) Volca Beats and Bass, Arturia Beat step

JnGd
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Re: Modulation Busses section question

Post by JnGd » Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:34 pm

Well, my bad ears aren't so bad...same over here ColorForm2113

EDIT: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ColorForm2113
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Re: Modulation Busses section question

Post by ColorForm2113 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:39 pm

JnGd wrote:Hi,

just did that test over and over and it's quite the same to my ears...I can recall a "pico-difference" but ? I wonder if it is just normal...
it's analog, all those interconnexions and still quite the same sound...I am assuming that nothing was plugged in the ON/MOD 2 jack...

EDIT: yes, there is a difference...if the FILTER MODE is Highpass/Lowpass...the sound isn't the same...my test was only on Dual lowpass
which sounded the same...except for the pico-differences of my bad ears!

I got differences in both highpass/lowpass and dual lowpass modes...hmm interesting. Are you running stereo or mono? Filter shaping centered?
My modular so far: Q104, Q106 x2, Q107, Q108, Q109 x2 , Q116, Q118, Q127 w/Q140, Q130, STG Wave Folder, Mixer and Mankato playing with Moog Voyager, VX-351, CP-251, MF-104M x2 ( STEREO!) Volca Beats and Bass, Arturia Beat step

JnGd
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Re: Modulation Busses section question

Post by JnGd » Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:32 pm

Hi,
Colorform 2113, I was in mono, but just did a stereo test too, here was the setup:

Initialized parameters
both modulation busses modified as per Meterman setup (source: on/mod, destination: filter, shaping: filt.env.)
nothing plugged in at mod 1 and mod 2 input jacks
cutoff knob at 180
spacing at 0
resonance at 0
kb ctrl amount at 255
amt to filter knob at midpoint
mod.wheel full ahead (in all cases)
both busses amt knob at 0

Both busses, one then the other, were "competing" against the amt to filter knob...here are the results:

Dual Lowpass
mono or stereo
both busses v/s amt to filt
same sound

High pass/Low pass
mono or stereo
both busses v/s amt to filt
different sound

I will pause and think now...

ColorForm2113
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Re: Modulation Busses section question

Post by ColorForm2113 » Thu Jan 01, 2015 2:13 pm

Ok I did your test as above and got the same results

I think everything is working fine here. The filter curve is more noticeable in the high/low setting when you have the cutoff set where it is (180) but if you dial it back to sound 80 you should notice a difference in the dual low as well. The cut off frequency around 180 is about 2k hz which doesn't leave much to be filtered out for a lowpass, but for a bandpass (which is what the high/low creates) there can be a more significant change in the upper register.

I think this all happens from one of two possibilities. 1) the filter envelope in the mod buss routing and the envelope are different slopes (linear and exponential maybe) or 2) the filter envelope section just puts out more voltage than the ON source in the buss

This is just speculation since I don't have equipment to test it
My modular so far: Q104, Q106 x2, Q107, Q108, Q109 x2 , Q116, Q118, Q127 w/Q140, Q130, STG Wave Folder, Mixer and Mankato playing with Moog Voyager, VX-351, CP-251, MF-104M x2 ( STEREO!) Volca Beats and Bass, Arturia Beat step

JnGd
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Re: Modulation Busses section question

Post by JnGd » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:02 pm

Hi to all,

I just did an "edit" on the "analogy-with-the-sea" when trying to explain to meterman the MOD BUSSES...

JnGd
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Re: Modulation Busses section question

Post by JnGd » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:44 pm

Hi all,

just did another edit on the "sea analogy" for Meterman...and others perhaps.

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GregAE
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Re: Modulation Busses section question

Post by GregAE » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:18 am

meterman wrote: Also the Env. Gate setting on the LFO as well, what does this do?


Maybe I missed it in this thread, but it didn't look like anyone answered this question.

The Env. Gate setting on the LFO works much like the KB setting in that it resets (retriggers) the LFO, but in this case the trigger originates from the Envelope Gate jack on the Voyager's back panel. When the 'Env Gate' setting is selected, a positive gate applied to the Envelope Gate jack will retrigger the LFO. So what does 'retriggering' mean?

When the LFO is retriggered (either from the Keyboard or the Env Gate) it starts from its peak value and begins its cycle downward. This makes the LFO behave in a predictable way. For example, you can use this to imitate the effect of a decaying envelope in a patch if the LFO is set very slowly. Of course, once the LFO bottoms out, it starts to climb, so a patch that uses it this way has to be carefully programmed to avoid the inevitable rise (assuming that's what you're going for).

But getting back to the main topic here - for anyone interested in learning more, there's a substantial PDF article on the Voyager's Modulation Busses on the KnobTweak site. Written in 2006 and updated in 2009, it has a detailed description of all of the mod buss functions, a color diagram of all mod bus options, and some useful tips on using the mod busses effectively. Find it here:

KnobTweak > Files > Voyager > Get On The Bus.PDF

Enjoy!

- Greg

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meterman
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Re: Modulation Busses section question

Post by meterman » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:41 pm

Wow that really detailed write up, thanks for the info Greg :D

Speaking of detailed information, anybody watched the moog voyager training dvd? They have some of the video's on youtube, but it seems to stop shy of the bus section. I assume that it covers all that as well on the DVD, anybody know if that is online somewhere?

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