Why so many dead OSCs?

[modoc_333]

Its all very well posting about how well your voyager maybe working

If so, try rereading the OP's posts. He seems to think most Voyagers are made defective - or at least that is the tone he has taken. That is why I said my Voyager works.

I certainly didn't say that. I didn't mean for that to be the tone either. It was simply an observation that the Voyager forum had more posts about dead OSCs than the other forums did. I was curious if anyone else had noticed the same and might could shed some light on the reason why. There was really no attack on Moog or Voyager owners. The truth is that I would love to have one and have been looking into a purchase at some point. The fact that there were so many threads about this sort of trouble made me a bit nervous before dropping $3K. I wouldn't have the same concern buying other products because I don't see as many threads related to this sort of problem.

[Solum]

I also had to turn in my Voyager after one year of use. They changed a complete board on warranty. Everything works fine again and it was kind to change the board and not only one of the bugs that was roasted.

[GovernorSilver]

I certainly didn't say that. I didn't mean for that to be the tone either. It was simply an observation that the Voyager forum had more posts about dead OSCs than the other forums did. I was curious if anyone else had noticed the same and might could shed some light on the reason why. There was really no attack on Moog or Voyager owners. The truth is that I would love to have one and have been looking into a purchase at some point. The fact that there were so many threads about this sort of trouble made me a bit nervous before dropping $3K. I wouldn't have the same concern buying other products because I don't see as many threads related to this sort of problem.

Thanks for the clarification.

Yes, it is reasonable to do some research and have concerns before spending good money on a premium model synth. Regarding other products, I have seen complaints about the Sub Phatty/Little Phatty (take a peek at the Phatty forum), various Dave Smith Instruments synths, etc. just from hanging out on various synth forums. Every synth, virtual and real, has issues here and there. As Alain mentioned, hardware components can and do fail, software (in the synth OS/firmware) can have bugs, etc. There may appear to be more Voyager complaints than Phatty complaints, but consider Voyagers have been made since 2000 or 2001, there are more of them in the field, and therefore the chances are something will have gone wrong with a Voyager somewhere in the world between 2000-2013 will have been greater compared to any Phatty model.

What you should consider is the level of service - what the manufacturer actually does when something does go wrong. Moog Music has going for it is the customer service (Moog itself, not the distributors), which appears to be a much higher level than the norm for big-name synth makers these days. I think the only company that might have an even better record is Symbolic Sounds (makers of Kyma). At the other end of the spectrum, Roland and Yamaha are very difficult to deal with unless you are a celebrity.

[modoc_333]

I certainly didn't say that. I didn't mean for that to be the tone either. It was simply an observation that the Voyager forum had more posts about dead OSCs than the other forums did. I was curious if anyone else had noticed the same and might could shed some light on the reason why. There was really no attack on Moog or Voyager owners. The truth is that I would love to have one and have been looking into a purchase at some point. The fact that there were so many threads about this sort of trouble made me a bit nervous before dropping $3K. I wouldn't have the same concern buying other products because I don't see as many threads related to this sort of problem.

Thanks for the clarification.

Yes, it is reasonable to do some research and have concerns before spending good money on a premium model synth. Regarding other products, I have seen complaints about the Sub Phatty/Little Phatty (take a peek at the Phatty forum), various Dave Smith Instruments synths, etc. just from hanging out on various synth forums. Every synth, virtual and real, has issues here and there. As Alain mentioned, hardware components can and do fail, software (in the synth OS/firmware) can have bugs, etc. There may appear to be more Voyager complaints than Phatty complaints, but consider Voyagers have been made since 2000 or 2001, there are more of them in the field, and therefore the chances are something will have gone wrong with a Voyager somewhere in the world between 2000-2013 will have been greater compared to any Phatty model.

What you should consider is the level of service - what the manufacturer actually does when something does go wrong. Moog Music has going for it is the customer service (Moog itself, not the distributors), which appears to be a much higher level than the norm for big-name synth makers these days. I think the only company that might have an even better record is Symbolic Sounds (makers of Kyma). At the other end of the spectrum, Roland and Yamaha are very difficult to deal with unless you are a celebrity.

I am glad you understand that I wasn't slamming them. I think your comment about how long they have been made is probably a big part of the story. I wonder how the quantities produced matches up. I know there are a lot of Slim/Little Phatty synths out there. But there are a lot of Voyagers too! Maybe the answer about how long they have been produced is THE answer. I was just hoping there wasn't an issue other than that.... a bad batch of parts, too much heat produced, etc.

I have to agree about Moog's service though. They really are a great company that always tries to do the RIGHT thing!

[beyourdog]

My 2 cents trying to bring some light to this matter based on my personnal recent experience...

...I bought a Voyager XL (In Australia) and 3 weeks later, after hooking it up to a Midi Sequencer, the VCO2 disappeared. I did re-initialise the system in the Voyager Menu, VCO2 came back for a short time and then disappeared...I was quite annoyed and very disappointed about it as it is a fantastic instrument and a joyfull controller, I really love it. I usually tend to use my equipment to its limit so not unusual for me to control VCO2 and VCO3 from different sources with the OS working in the back for other stuff....I tend to control my Model D from the Voyager XL and both are related to the same family and are incredible instruments...

As it was under garantuee (thank God), I sent it to the people I bought it from in Australia and followed it up quite closely, basically calling the technicians every week, I harassed them a bit, but I really was trying to understand why a new synth has VCOs disappearing...makes no sense, if there is a problem, let's swap the IC's and then we're cool, just tell me which ICs you swaped in case off it happens again and I'll do it, usual thing when you have some vintage stuf...

SO, According to the technician who performed the repairs, the new/latest Voyager OS are a too hard for the analog board and some ICs tends to be too hot...not a problem for the digital board, but the usual analog board are driven hard by the new OS... so the best solution is to swap the boards by a new version of the Analog board:
- My new analog board is labelled: BOARD#11-0404P

So basically, the technician waited patiently for a new Voyager board from the US, took 2 months basically, they tend to ship a bleep load of stuff at the same time to the importer in Australia and wouldn't even bother posting a single board for repairs internationally....so he changed the boards, bit of fine tuning, took 2 days from receiving the boards to ship it back to me, kind of swap, easy, still 2 months to get the boards...

NOW...I have the synth back, maybe I'm getting crazy, but I'm pretty sure the resonance sounds different than the prevous board/synth I had.
I now clearly hear some kind of steppings of the filter when the resonance is cranked up (a bit like the prophet 600 filter steppings...), + the filter with mid/high resonance seems to have a bit of a different caracter, I find it a lot more nasal than it was, a bit like the VCS3 filter behaves with hugh resonance settings...it is not really a problem though, quite interesting in fact...
I would like to basically know how I can limit the resonance stepping, something in the menus??? Thanks for your help...

Anyway, these were my 2 cents based on my recent experience of repairing my Voyager XL...

[ColorForm2113]

that's interesting, I wonder if they ( and I am in no way a technician, so I'm sure this isn't the proper terminology) installed some sort of digital restrictor between the digital and analog board on the new ones to try and limit the amount of "juice" being sent to the analog board.

and I wonder too, you say you tend to use the synth to its limits so I'm assuming there's a lot of pot mapping and mid buss routing going on then right? I do a ton of that too, and maybe that's what's overloading the analog circuits. you have the digital board firing on all cylinders constantly sending thousands off tweeks to the analog board and it just literally exhausts it. just untrained guess though

[nailmusic]

This is disheartening to say the least. After an initial fix (a low frequency hum), I had 2 years of trouble free operation. Now, OSC 2 is out of tune across ALL patches, and OSC 3 just went dead. Unfortunately for me, I've got 5 important gigs coming over the next 3 weeks - and I'm going to be screwed, because I'll have to rent something to cover in addition to the repair costs. This is bizarre and unacceptable, and I'm not encouraged by finding other posts about dead Voyager OSC's. W. T. F.

[beyourdog]

that's interesting, I wonder if they ( and I am in no way a technician, so I'm sure this isn't the proper terminology) installed some sort of digital restrictor between the digital and analog board on the new ones to try and limit the amount of "juice" being sent to the analog board.

and I wonder too, you say you tend to use the synth to its limits so I'm assuming there's a lot of pot mapping and mid buss routing going on then right? I do a ton of that too, and maybe that's what's overloading the analog circuits. you have the digital board firing on all cylinders constantly sending thousands off tweeks to the analog board and it just literally exhausts it. just untrained guess though

Well exactly that, I had pots mapping, and lots of patchs on the left of the Voyager XL, hooked it up with a Midi sequencer which sent Midi commands and poff, abracadabra, OSC2 dead.
I'd like to get some MOOG comments on the resonance as the stepping is a bit annoying, still brings a kind of VCS3 caracter that I quite enjoy...
Dispite this, this is a killer synth, I had 1 3 years ago but did not enjoy it too much, was into modular at the time, now I found and digged it, I really enjoy it., I have a Model D on the side as well and they are really from the same family. I think the thing that putted me out of the Voyager the first time were the envelops, they're very different to the Model D and it took me time to get used to it...
And well, what a joy to keep a patch into memory, when you're used to Vintage stuff, it feels like an amazing invention

Now I must admit, Moog will never admit it in public, you know it is like in the car industry, as long as it is not dangerous, they wouldn;t dare bringing back the models and will only treat when the problems happen. What's annoying though is when you're out of the US, they have no consideration of international clients, when I'm pretty sure most of their equipment ends up being sold outside of the US...

[fyvewytches]

What's annoying though is when you're out of the US, they have no consideration of international clients

Well, I can tell you for a fact that you are totally wrong on this one ! I have contacted Moog support on a number of occasions and they have been responsive and efficient… and as far as I know I still live outside of the US.

[slirak]

I now clearly hear some kind of steppings of the filter when the resonance is cranked up (a bit like the prophet 600 filter steppings...)

Have you turned off Parameter Display?

If you have the Voyager hooked up to something like a DAW via MIDI, you'll often get stepping. With most DAW's and the usual way to hook it up, any knob tweak you do on the Voyager will actually go out via MIDI to the DAW and then back in to the Voyager. This is as it should be, if you have the Voyager's MIDI track enabled and want a setup where you can record the Voyager's knob tweaks into your DAW. (The behavior might differ depending on the MIDI track's monitor mode).

Problem is, Voyager's poor CPU can't quite handle both the incoming MIDI data AND the parameter display update task at once. Turning it off is the official fix. And it works, at least if you have a fairly current Voyager OS.

[Vsyevolod]

Hay Guise,

I have a Great Idea!!!

Let's turn this thread into Internet Speculation and Unbridled Negativity!!!

Whaddya think?

Stephen




.

[ColorForm2113]

Hay Guise,

I have a Great Idea!!!

Let's turn this thread into Internet Speculation and Unbridled Negativity!!!

Whaddya think?

Stephen




.

that's definitely not my intention. just trying to get to the bottom of a common problem. I love my voyager as I have said before and would only part with it for an xl. everything thing has issues from time to time specially electronics, and despite a minor inconvenience off having to send it back, it's well worth the price of admission. and moog has amazing customer service!

[beyourdog]

What's annoying though is when you're out of the US, they have no consideration of international clients

Well, I can tell you for a fact that you are totally wrong on this one ! I have contacted Moog support on a number of occasions and they have been responsive and efficient… and as far as I know I still live outside of the US.

Well, that's a statement Never been able to get their feedback on my board, but maybe everybody has different experiences right...

[beyourdog]

I now clearly hear some kind of steppings of the filter when the resonance is cranked up (a bit like the prophet 600 filter steppings...)

Have you turned off Parameter Display?

If you have the Voyager hooked up to something like a DAW via MIDI, you'll often get stepping. With most DAW's and the usual way to hook it up, any knob tweak you do on the Voyager will actually go out via MIDI to the DAW and then back in to the Voyager. This is as it should be, if you have the Voyager's MIDI track enabled and want a setup where you can record the Voyager's knob tweaks into your DAW. (The behavior might differ depending on the MIDI track's monitor mode).

Problem is, Voyager's poor CPU can't quite handle both the incoming MIDI data AND the parameter display update task at once. Turning it off is the official fix. And it works, at least if you have a fairly current Voyager OS.

Thanks for that, I shut it off but still can hear it,..especially when th cutoff is at the lower settings...

[J C Selector]

My 2 cents trying to bring some light to this matter based on my personnal recent experience...

...I bought a Voyager XL (In Australia)

SO, According to the technician who performed the repairs, the new/latest Voyager OS are a too hard for the analog board and some ICs tends to be too hot...not a problem for the digital board, but the usual analog board are driven hard by the new OS... so the best solution is to swap the boards by a new version of the Analog board:
- My new analog board is labelled: BOARD#11-0404P

I had a similar issue, they replaced the analog board. (XL was second hand so no waranty)
Then when I got it home, Mod bus 2 didnt work.
Took it back and they now have to replace the digital board. Is there anything left ?
So, call it bad luck or call it an issue ? (Tech actually said there was an issue with older version analog board).