rack voyager official!!!voyager RME.

Tips and techniques for Minimoog Analog Synthesizers
monads
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Post by monads » Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:28 pm

Stefan has some good points. It does put it in the price range of the Cwejman SI MK2, but not the Macbeth M5. Preorder prices are £1995 (GPB). That would equal with today's exchange rates around $3,725 USD not including shipping. At this point the Voyager RME looks like a real steal, w/added memory to boot. Not that Ken Macbeth couldn't add memory to his M5, but I remember him saying he didn't want anything digital in his synth, all analog. Also Cwejman is working on a new synth, the S2 and is supposed to available around march-april 2005.

martin
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Rackmount Blues

Post by martin » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:19 pm

So there's a rackmount version of the Voyager. I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.

I bought my performer version 2 years ago in th UK, waited 6 months and when it came it had its name stripped off and had an unfinished OS. I bought a notebook for yet more cash, and after all the OS updates and many futile tries to come to terms with MIDIshmox, the Pitch Bend still didn't work, neither did the Touch Screen. Now my Voyager is in London at Turnkey for repairs - more waiting.

In the meantime the warranty has expired and I'll have to pay hard cash for the repairs. Moog informed me that strictly speaking the PB repair I wanted done FOC wasn't even considered a "repair" as it was the best they could make it at the time of purchase - meaning that the miscalibrated board was "up to spec". Huzzah. Let's see what kind of hassle the TS issue will bring up.

So ... Right now I'm with my trusty DX100 again (took 2 weeks' waiting and 150 UKP in repairs and is as good as new). Pitch bending works flawlessly here. And the thing is 20 years old.

So yay, the new rackmount Voyager. Would I like one? No thanks. It just looks like the 2 main problems I had with the Voyager had just been taken care of in a sneaky but very clever way.

No doubt, the MMV sounds great. But all the hassle, what for? And the thing doesn't have certain features I would have needed, such as a ring modulator, CV and Audio outs from the VCO's etc. Instead, it has features I don't need, such as a screwed up board and a faulty Touchscreen. Not good.

Am I making music with the same feeling of enjoyment even the crappy Rogue could bring? Nope. I'm waiting and paying money for repairs and certainly NOT playing music.

When the MMV came out and Turnkey sold it for 2000 UKP, that was a big deal. Never have I paid that much cash for anything. Now I read in Turnkey's ad, that the performer costs 1799 UKP - "A desirable classic synth of the modern era that will appreciate in value". OK. So where are my 200 Pounds of "appreciated value"? Right, I bought a CV expander with the mo. Oh no, I didn't, that was a dream.

So - am I really that happy with all this? I am afraid I feel a bit cheated and unhappy with what I am experiencing right now.

And my conclusion? Yeah, if I had the will to go through more disappointments with the Voyager, I'd give the Rack thing a shot. But I just want to play a synthesizer and make funny noises.

So... Next time I'm going for a Modular. Unless Moog decide to make modulars, I'm taking my hard earned dollars elsewhere.

Martin

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goldphinga
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Post by goldphinga » Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:00 pm

that sucks that you've had so many problems. i too bought an early performer from turnkey, mine had the same problems as yours but i sent it back after 2 days and got a refund. the lesson is never to buy anything with an early os version as it will always be trouble until all the bugs are ironed out. i only bought my ae version once i new the boards and os were completely stable and now there is no way i would give up my voyager. its a shame you have had such a bad experience but if you were to buy the current stable version you would not be questioning its reliability-its rock solid. id put a bit of pressure on turnkey to replace your voyager, it clearly wasnt fit for the purpose intended and the supplier is responsible for sorting this out under the sale of goods act. its unfortunately not moogs responsibility-but it is turnkeys. put it in writing and get a replacement. good luck!
Moog Gear: Voyager AE,LP Stage 2+CV outs (Blue LED's/Wheels, MF104SD, MF101 Filter, MF103 Phaser, Source, Memorymoog+, Minitaur.

MFenkner
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Post by MFenkner » Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:10 pm

Regarding the price, $2195 is list price which doesn't mean that's what it will cost you. I got my MMV Anniversary Edition (list $3295) for $2500 plus tax - and the dealer included the cover and goosneck lamp. I called various online dealers, stretching the truth a little on the lowest quote I received, and once I had the lowest price, I visited my local Sam Ash who happened to have one in stock, and they gave it to me for that price, including the accessories they had with it. In certain retail markets, I've learned that you've gotta play the game and never pay near list price.

Maybe at first dealers will be firm on their price, but give it a little while and I'll bet you could but an RME for $1650.

Mark

martin
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Post by martin » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:09 am

Thanks for your feedback. I am disappointed in the way Moog are treating customers who have bought early Voyagers. Read this excerpt from an email with Moog Music about the Pitch Bend issue. Of course, Turnkey has argued that the repair is chargeable. To my knowledge, according to the Sale of Goods Act, such faults that are inherent from day one are NOT chargeable. If Moog says, the fault is not even a fault but (see below) the best spec they could come up with, then I wish I could turn back time and not have bought this product. Shame on both Turnkey an Moog for this.

Please read below ...

"As for the pitch bend calibration, you are correct that the early units fell
short of ideal tuning as far as the pitch bend is concerned. We have since
improved the circuit somewhat to allow for more precise calibration of the
tuning across a broader range. What I meant by the original units being "to
spec" of that time is that, while there were inherent problems with the
design, that was essentially the best design we had at that time. We have
since made improvements, but as you pointed out all the units shipped at
that time and reviewed by others pointed out this "feature" and while
improvements were desired and forthcoming, the originals cannot be
considered defective as they were functioning correctly according to the
earliest design. When a change of this nature is made, it is an improvement
to the design, and upgrading an older unit to the improved design is
considered a voluntary upgrade and not a repair per se. This is perhaps a
more subtle distinction, but it is company policy (...)"

The Unknown
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Post by The Unknown » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:20 am

This is a bit of a poor state of affairs and I'm quite surprised that Moog would admit to their early machines being, in effect, released before being truly finished - especially when you consider that pitch bend is such a fundamental feature. It seems to me that these synths needed more R&D before being unleashed on the synth playing community.
It is better to be loved or hated than to be regarded with indifference.
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If the past is ill, make the future better.

Nucleus
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Post by Nucleus » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:46 pm

Martin, you are absolutely right. I also have an early performer and had the exact same pitch range problems. My problems were solved eventually but not thanks to Moog!
It is worst enough that an instrument in this price range does have such a strange design flaw in the analog section in the first place. A normal working pitch bend is a basic feature of any keyboard. It's not groundbreaking new territory in analog synthesizer design. So when they have made such an error in the initial design, they could have dealt with it far more elegantly by offering a board upgrade to the early buyers. Not punishing them by charging additional costs. Don't get me wrong, I am very happy with my Voyager - especially now my problems are solved, but this way of dealing with customers has left a bitter taste.

Cruel Hoax
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Post by Cruel Hoax » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:38 am

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience, martin. Was this from Turnkey, or from Moog Music themselves?

The reason I ask is that my experience with Moog has been superlatively positive. The people were great, communication was great, and hardware fixes to my Signature Edition (the "master-volume-at-5-noise" problem and "noisy oscillator" problem) were done with professional competence and professional attitude.

It's hard to believe that the same folks that took such good care of me could just give somebody a "sorry, but it's company policy not to fix stuff" sort of answer. Every time I've dealt with Moog (repairs on two separate Voyagers), they've been super pro, but also "real people"; really accessible professionals who understand that I'm just trying to make music. I can't believe that Steve or anybody else would hide behind a "it's just company policy" wimp-out. They're better people than that.

-Hoax

martin
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Post by martin » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:02 pm

Hi
Thanks again for your feedback. The quote above was from Moog themselves. I had bought the Voyager in the UK 2 years ago. Now living in Ireland, shipping is a bit more risky and expensive so I preferred to wait a bit to see if Moog could come up with a software OS repair for the faults. This has not been the case, and I have shipped the unit to Turnkey a month ago. I wrote a few days ago to enquire about the state of the repair, but so far no answer.

Moog have since contacted me and said I should be more cordial in my approach to these forums - apologies if I have gone too far. However, I am merely stating facts and if I am emotional, this, I hope, is understandable.

My problem remains. I have paid big dough for a faulty unit for which I would like a replacement/refund/repair.

I would like to state that the sound of the MMV is very nice indeed.
Moog have stated that they would repair the Voyager - an option which I can't use as I won't have any sleep knowing that my instrument may get damaged beyond repair during transport. It would also be too costly.

Moog have stated that I have waited too long with the request fo a repair. Of course, I understand that the guarantee is expired. But some problems came up only after the latest software update and that was just a few months ago. So I can't really accept that point as a means to wiggle out of the responsibility for releasing the Voyager before all the hardware issues have been resolved. (Read the 1st and 2nd SOS articles on the Voyager. I am NOT making this up.)

In conclusion I want to thank Moog Music for their support so far which has been swift and musically helpful (for instance when it came to programming certain sounds). This is really good.

I just hope that I will get my instrument back from Turnkey soon, in an up to date state and with no flaws.
I am considering selling it on and getting a modular synth of one of the many manufacturers that make them today - in a configuration I can choose myself. And - I want to enjoy it by making music with it. That's all I ever wanted from my Moog - something I have wanted for all my life.

Martin

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Kelly
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Post by Kelly » Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:25 pm

With all due respect Martin, it does sound like you've fallen through the cracks a bit; I just wanted to offer the hope that all can be well in Moog land. I bought an early Vger and have since had it serviced up to 'modern' spec and its quiet and great. I added the blue wheels as a treat so it feels like something new happened after the work done. It is $100US (correct?) to cover manufacturing as it is a new board, not a repair to your existing performance board. Without covering the costs on this the hit was too great for Moog to take I suppose. I would recommend it for early SN Performer owners though as it makes a noteable difference, including some noise reduction. I've just done a piece with seven different layers of Vger in it and the mix is clean as a whistle. Can't say that about any old analogue I've ever played, including my former LAMM. Stay the course, pay the upgrade. I guarantee you some solice once your Vgers tones are with you again :)


Kelly.

sininthebin
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Re: rack voyager official!!!voyager RME.

Post by sininthebin » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:04 pm

Hi Martin ,
you mentioned Turnkey in London- any ideas if they would repair my Rogue? I have struggled to find anyone skilled enough or interested in this other than Synth repairs in Stoke which do not seem to be active currently.
Thanks.

ARP
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Re: rack voyager official!!!voyager RME.

Post by ARP » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:36 pm

You do know that your responding to a post that's over 5 years old ? :wink:
"Although they heard the music..they didn't understand the tune"

Sweep
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Re: rack voyager official!!!voyager RME.

Post by Sweep » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:48 am

Turnkey ceased trading a couple of years ago.

Moog may know of someone in Britain who can do repairs. It may be worth asking directly. Alternatively I've just emailed a dealer in Britain who has his own tech for the many analogue synths he sells, to see if he could get a Rogue repaired. I'll post here if I get any definite info.
Websites: http://musicbysweep.com and http://theSynthiMusicSite.infinite9ths.com

Sweep
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Re: rack voyager official!!!voyager RME.

Post by Sweep » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:11 am

Spoke to Richard Lawson (who I'd definitely recommend as a synth dealer, BTW).

His tech is Kent Spong, who's based in Surrey. Kent's phone number is listed on Richard's website, so there should be no issue with posting it here: 020 8873 2044.

That should be fine, but let me know if there are any problems.
Websites: http://musicbysweep.com and http://theSynthiMusicSite.infinite9ths.com

psicolor
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Re: rack voyager official!!!voyager RME.

Post by psicolor » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:04 am

Thanks for bringing up this thread, it was really enlighting!
Serious!
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