Voyager quality problems - feedbacks wanted

[theglyph]

I'm taking this very personally Toni and have to say that your last post was very inappropriate.

To suggest that Moog doesn't care about mechanical quality is BS. Every single employee at Moog knows what they are building and know how important quality is.

I can only say that when it comes to product quality Mike Adams and the rest of the Moog crew take this very seriously and always have. They're good people and do there best to keep crap from leaving the factory.

And FWIW, there's now such thing as perfection so a Perfect Moog has never existed. Thank god it hasn't because that is what makes analog so beautiful!!

Cheers,
Aaron

[IAA]

+1
most "perfect" keyboard I own.

[MC]

My dealers (I mean my local dealer as same as the wholesale dealer)

Original sound:

If you want a MOOG you have to bear that the mechanical quality is a very poor thing!!!! (Seen from the point of Swiss man and maybe some other Europeans)

That has ALWAYS been so in the past ....

They offered a full money back - but I do not want the money,

I want a quite PERFECT MOOG voyager.

It seems to be impossible..........


Toni

Toni your issue is the dealer not Moog.

I have visited the Moogworks on three occasions over the last ten years, the latest being a year ago. I have engineering experience in quality control and production. I can say with authority that they build quality product, they have a good manager under Mike Adams who cares about customer satisfaction, they have an excellent support team that quickly resolves issues, and the people I talk to on the production line are genuinely interested in their product.

I have owned several moog products since the first Voyagers were made and had not a single issue with them. Your issues seem to be the exception and I have been a member here since the Voyagers were released.

It is highly probable that your dealer may be passing off returns as new unused product. I would take his offer of a refund and go find yourself another dealer, and if you do find better product then I would report the questionable dealer to Moog. Insulting fellow moog owners who do not subscribe to your conspiracy theories of quality problems is not going to earn you many friends.

[theglyph]

Toni your issue is the dealer not Moog.

Yes, EMC! This was a very difficult stance for me and I feel that Stefan is not being fare when it comes to how much Moog puts into its quality! I won't say anymore about this!

[Golddope]

I once Owned a Swiss army Knife and it was Rubbish !

[sunny pedaal]

almost certain it's not true:
12 posts, only complaining, no reaction to suggestions on how to solve the suppossed problem....
pity that these things happen , as said: probably karma

[LivePsy]

probably karma

So karma is the new bitch slap now?

[Jay]

Dear all,

I have faltered a long time before I registered myself here on the forum. Usually I hate these kind of talkings. But now, listen to my words, especially the moog people, hangin here around.

I can feel with Toni.
AND I had nearly a same issue, when I bought my voyager (I am from Munich)

The sound is allright, of course!!!!! So do not missunderstand me.
What a pitty, that some handmade workings are rather poor done, on the voyager.

One example.
When the top of my performer is put down (for transport), it lays not on the rubber bumbers, it bangs with the connector sockets on the wood.
So I did first aid on myself. I replaced the rubber bumpers on my own.

This solution is ok for myself, but it shows me, that the quality check at moog factory can not be always ok!
And quality control should not be charged on the dealers, it should be done by the manufacturers. You understand?

kind regards from Munich (Bavaria)

Jay

[Sweep]

So basically the guy's pissed off, very understandably, because he's been sold a sub-standard instrument.

It's pretty certainly his dealer's fault because this kind of poor quality isn't usual with Moog (at least, it never has been before and there's every reason to think Moog are maintaining their excellent levels of quality control).

But the guy has nothing to campare to. His dealer maintains that the problem is with Moog build quality, and this guy isn't able to go into another store and compare with a different stock of Moogs, so what's he to do? I would have been in the same situation if my Voyager had been sub-standard. There was only one dealer in Britain, and my attempts to find someone who owned one in Britain had led to nothing.

Ok, he would have been better to remain cool rather than to get upset - but how many of us would have managed that, having spent a very large sum of money and been assured repeatedly by the only dealer we have access to that the problem is Moog's fault and not his?

But that evidently makes him 1) a troll, 2) at fault for not having posted positive comments about his definitely sub-standard instrument, and 3) at fault for some supposed misdemeanour commited elsewhere in his life on in some hypothetical other life.

I appreciate that this forum is generally for people who are positive about Moog instruments. But it's also for anybody who owns a Moog instrument or is interested in owning one. Without trying to say this guy is blameless, it does strike me that many of the responses he's had are over the top and defensive/aggressive. He needs to speak directly with Moog. What he doesn't need is to be told it's all his own fault that he's been ripped off and he has no right to dare to criticise Moog. Surely that's a bit extreme?

[sunny pedaal]

yes you're right, maybe it's because i really never had a problem with any of the moog things i bought.
nevertheless , whenever i buy something and it's not good, best thing to do is go back to the dealer, 2 make it clear on paper to the dealer , 3 perhaps ask moog directly in an open question ( what can i do with it ) , 4 sue the dealer .
but maybe that's too practical too.

[jon_kull]

I've owned three Voyagers with no physical/cosmetic defects. They've all been built rather well...like a fine piece of furniture. That said I don't understand how this is the fault of the dealer vs a few poorly built pieces slipping through Moog's QC cracks. Did the dealer build the uneven cabinet? Did the dealer install the uneven LEDs and buttons? Did the dealer mount the control panel so it sits unevenly and doesn't lay flat when closed? The OP bought 3 Voyagers all with the same problems and somehow it's the dealer's fault? This doesn't make sense to me. No one is perfect or infallible...not even Moog employees. Maybe someone was sick, or distracted or having a bad day or whatever and some bad units made it out the door. It can happen to anyone. Even Moog.

[EricK]

Some of the buttons on my Voyager are deeper than others. I don't care though.

[sunny pedaal]

the customer buys from the dealer. when there is a problem the person should goo back to the shop where he bought it.
same for the dealer: if he gets ( and sold ) a bad instrument, he can complain / send it back to moog.
who knows how and where it happened.
however 3 on a row ?

[Sweep]

That said I don't understand how this is the fault of the dealer vs a few poorly built pieces slipping through Moog's QC cracks. Did the dealer build the uneven cabinet? Did the dealer install the uneven LEDs and buttons? Did the dealer mount the control panel so it sits unevenly and doesn't lay flat when closed? The OP bought 3 Voyagers all with the same problems and somehow it's the dealer's fault? This doesn't make sense to me. No one is perfect or infallible...not even Moog employees. Maybe someone was sick, or distracted or having a bad day or whatever and some bad units made it out the door. It can happen to anyone. Even Moog.

Yes, you have a definite point there. When I posted I'd missed the original poster's comment about having had three faulty Voyagers.

I must say - responding particularly to your point about the uneven cabinet - that I wondered if the Voyager in question had been damaged and rebuilt and then sold as new stock. But if this has happened three times, either there's a whole load of damaged Voyagers around Europe (possible but maybe less likely?). or else there's a genuine build quality issue. The point made by a number of people by this time about the mounting of the buttons seems to point to the latter.

Regarding the dealer, it may be that he's received a bad batch for whatever reason, or a collection of rebuilds passed off as new stock. His comments about all Moog products being of that standard aren't accurate though, and if he's a Moog dealer (which he presumably would be) then I wonder why he doesn't take this up with Moog himself.

But clearly this is an issue that needs to be settled by Moog in connection with the dealer and the customer.

I'm glad the last couple of posts are at least taking a more balanced view of the customer's concerns and not writing him off as a troll or someone with `bad karma.'

[timmy]

who is the dealer? (i asked earlier but no response)

is the dealer accepting returns - possibly damaged units from customers - and then reselling them as new stock? were the units damaged on shipment over to Europe and the dealer decided "ah, screw it. this guy Toni needs three units, i only have these three damaged units that will be sent back to Moog, i'll just flip 'em over on Toni and because he needs them so bad he will live with them as is"? Toni did mention, "my local dealer as same as the wholesale dealer". did Toni get a break on the price from wholesale dealer to purchase b-stock to avoid returning to Moog?

i'm certainly not attacking Toni as i strongly feel he deserves the right to a high quality instrument. i just want to know who this dealer is. are they reputable? are they suffering poor sales recently? do they sell out of the back of their car on weekends?

it's easy to jump all over Moog but we should also consider that dealers are in the business to make money - not make your dreams come true. there may be more to Toni's story that we don't know.