Problem with 2022 minimoogs aftertouch

Tips and techniques for Minimoog Analog Synthesizers
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VCO
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Problem with 2022 minimoogs aftertouch

Post by VCO » Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:52 pm

I’ve heard that the 2022 Minimoog has a problem with aftertouch being it asks more like a gate than a curve. Has anyone experienced this. It’s more of a on and off switch.

Beethree
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Re: Problem with 2022 minimoogs aftertouch

Post by Beethree » Mon Dec 19, 2022 2:12 pm

Yes. Well, not 100% on/off, but not very smooth at all, even when attenuating the output via the small knob.

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VCO
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Re: Problem with 2022 minimoogs aftertouch

Post by VCO » Tue Dec 27, 2022 8:09 pm

The voyagers aftertouch didn’t work very well either. I have a sequential pro3 and it’s aftertouch works better. Maybe there’s a setting that needs to be adjusted so the Minimoog 2022 RI responds correctly. I never use aftertouch touch much because it does seem difficult to get it to work right.
Maybe it’s me, maybe I don’t know how to adjust it correctly.

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till
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Re: Problem with 2022 minimoogs aftertouch

Post by till » Wed Dec 28, 2022 5:07 am

It is not a problem of the aftertouch amount only. The needed analog conversation of the logarithmic aftertouch values given by the Fatar keybed need to converted into a linear slope. And this is not that easy. See the three different boards of the Voyagers to get it right. And the best one was not sold by Moog, but by Rudi Linhard.

And the aftertouch is also digitalised to be send out via the MIDI Out socket.
keep on turning these Moog knobs

Sequence:
Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16

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VCO
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Re: Problem with 2022 minimoogs aftertouch

Post by VCO » Wed Dec 28, 2022 12:20 pm

Sounds complicated.

Beethree
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Re: Problem with 2022 minimoogs aftertouch

Post by Beethree » Wed Jan 25, 2023 9:53 am

This is the one bummer about an otherwise glorious instrument. I do like to use aftertouch. In the studio I can control it from another board with CV out, but it would be great to use it smoothly directly from the Mini, either routed to one of its own inputs, or say, into a MoogerFooger CV input. It is not very useful as is. I'm hoping for an aftermarket fix to arise. Aftertouch works as expected both on the One and the Subsequent 37 CV, so it is not an "all Moog" issue.

sdwillingham
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Re: Problem with 2022 minimoogs aftertouch

Post by sdwillingham » Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:17 pm

Yes, it is pretty broken. I’m surprised this didn’t get improved for the 2022 update. I put my aftertouch voltage on an oscilloscope and it really is essentially binary! It will out zero volts or maximum (depending on attenuator). One can see that it smoothly slews between these extremes, but I cannot adjust my finger pressure to hover at any voltage between the limits.

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till
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Re: Problem with 2022 minimoogs aftertouch

Post by till » Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:50 am

I am afraid, only a hardware fix will help. Like on the older Voyagers.
keep on turning these Moog knobs

Sequence:
Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16

sdwillingham
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Re: Problem with 2022 minimoogs aftertouch

Post by sdwillingham » Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:24 am

till wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:50 am I am afraid, only a hardware fix will help. Like on the older Voyagers.
No doubt. Has anyone reverse engineered the schematic?

Doddos
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Re: Problem with 2022 minimoogs aftertouch

Post by Doddos » Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:46 pm

There was a similar problem with the voyager in the beginning, but eventually became better. I remember the aftertouch on my voyager OS to be just fine. Maybe it was an easier fix on the more modern circuitry in the voyager? What about the Muse add-on for the model d reissue 2016 - didn't that fix the aftertouch (and LFO modulation with aftertouch as well)?

Strange that moog didn't fix it on this 2022 reissue....., personally I don't use it that much but in some occasions it would have been useful to control the LFO/osc 3 modulation with aftertouch on the model d. But that's not possible.

Anyway- the best thing about the reissue is the dedicated LFO; it's a simple LFO but it increases the modulation capabilities. I really like the layout with the frequency pot on the LHC as it's possible to turn the mod wheel and frequency pot simultaneously with one hand.

sdwillingham
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Re: Problem with 2022 minimoogs aftertouch

Post by sdwillingham » Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:22 am

By the way, I just put the aftertouch of my Matriarch on the oscilloscope, and it shows very smooth and controllable output. (Maybe the curve could be a bit better, but it is very usable.)

So it is even more curious how Moog can’t seem to get this right on the Model D. Especially as they paid a lot of attention to so many other details.

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VCO
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Re: Problem with 2022 minimoogs aftertouch

Post by VCO » Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:33 pm

Sometimes I wonder if the culprit may be the fatar synth action I’ve read the prophet5rev4 had problems with its aftertouch and velocity sensitivity when it was released and wasn’t addressed until later. I’ve also read the OBX8 aftertouch and velocity sensitivity is wonky as well.

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till
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Re: Problem with 2022 minimoogs aftertouch

Post by till » Tue Feb 14, 2023 5:43 am

VCO wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2023 7:33 pm Sometimes I wonder if the culprit may be the fatar synth action I’ve read the prophet5rev4 had problems with its aftertouch and velocity sensitivity when it was released and wasn’t addressed until later. I’ve also read the OBX8 aftertouch and velocity sensitivity is wonky as well.
It is not the Fatar. The Ribbon used for aftertouch is the same on all these recent Fatar keybeds (except for the few poly aftertouch ones). The Problem is designing the right interface to get a linear output from the exponential ribbon output. This is not so easy to do right.
And even if synths are created by the same company, there might be different developers in charge for the needed analog circuit handling this.
And the earlier circuit, the later improved and the third party version of this analog thing on the Voyager have a very different feeling, although these three were here used on the same Voyager. So it is not the keybed by Fatar.
keep on turning these Moog knobs

Sequence:
Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16

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VCO
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Re: Problem with 2022 minimoogs aftertouch

Post by VCO » Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:52 pm

I have the Moog Voyager . I purchased it used in 2015 when I found out they were going to be discontinued.
I have never had the aftertouch work. I don’t know if it’s me or the voyager. I know that there are knobs that have the option for pressure in the Mod Buss Area under Shaping . I m not sure if I just don’t know what I’m doing and not selecting and routing things correctly. I have the Sequential Pro3 and Oberhiem OBX8 and don’t have any problems with aftertouch on either. I know that on the OBX8 there are aftertouch and velocity curves. I have my aftertouch and velocity curves set to the highest value resulting in the most sensitively. There’s also an option where you can turn off the aftertouch. I don’t know if something on the voyager got turned off in regards to aftertouch or not. I also noticed that aftertouch on the Oberhiem OBX8 responds better if I press on the end of the key instead of the middle. The Sequential Pro3s aftertouch works flawlessly. So after comparing and contrasting all three synths I’m wondering if the voyager is
simply not working or if possibly a setting needs to be changed like in regards to the aftertouch curve amount which I
Don’t know exactly where that setting might be located or if the voyager even gives you the option for selecting aftertouch curve amounts. I know that the voyager is known for having problems with wonky aftertouch response.
Wasn’t sure if it was software related or hardware related or both or if it’s simply me not understanding how to operate
The voyager. I have OS 3.5. I would like to get the aftertouch to work. Was wondering what other voyager owners think
and if there’s something I’m over looking or if it’s simply the voyager not working correctly. Thanks

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till
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Re: Problem with 2022 minimoogs aftertouch

Post by till » Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:05 am

There are no aftertouch curves on the Voyager.

Simple sound to test aftertouch:
* init a sound
* left Modulation Bus:
** Source: triangle wave
** Destination: Pitch
** Shaping: Pressure (=aftertouch)
** Amount: start with max
* Play a not and add pressure to get a aftertouch controlled vibrato

Please move all the here named knobs even if they appear to be set on the named value, as their current status may not be the one in memory.

If this does not work, your aftertouch ribbon of the keybed is most likely disconnected.
keep on turning these Moog knobs

Sequence:
Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16

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