Voyager acts up when release and glide knobs are engaged (auto triggers rapidly)

Tips and techniques for Minimoog Analog Synthesizers
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naturecol
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Voyager acts up when release and glide knobs are engaged (auto triggers rapidly)

Post by naturecol » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:33 am

hello everyone,

I have a XL from 2013 and it does act up weird when both glide and release knobs on top of the wheels are engaged, if both are engaged, the display keeps showing "release" to have changed, and oddly enough it seems to trigger the envelopes very fast (but only on the rising edge of a lfo) it sounds really weird

attached I have an example with ext/on

I tried to reseat all cables in the wheelbox, to no avail, wonder what this is, I can not have both switches engaged or I get lots of phantom-triggers as in this audio example. essentially what seems to be happening is like someone is rocking the release switch randomly inhumanely fast ;-) the display also shows this - very curious that the switchmolesting only happens during the rising time of the lfo, so it is in some weird way connected to the lfo? Oo this does not sound good does it? luv my voyager :)

and suggestions would be highly appreciated
Attachments
weird voyager problem (release and glide knobs engaged).mp3.zip
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Markyboard
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Location: Springfield, VA

Re: Voyager acts up when release and glide knobs are engaged (auto triggers rapidly)

Post by Markyboard » Thu Oct 01, 2020 1:05 pm

Hi-

Well if that were intentional I'd say cool sound :lol: .

Need more information and hopefully Rudy will chime in. Is this affecting all oscillators? In other words if you try each oscillator by itself does it happen the same way? Is it affected by the glide rate, LFO rate and the envelope release times (both filter and VCA).

Just as a quick test try plugging something into the envelope rate and lfo rate jacks in case something is "stuck".

I assume this happens with no CVs and no midi connected?

naturecol
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Re: Voyager acts up when release and glide knobs are engaged (auto triggers rapidly)

Post by naturecol » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:45 am

hi Mark,

jep it happens with nothing connected essentially, it's tough to troubleshoot as it usually only happens when the synth has warmed up (after abour 10-20mins) but not always.

I discovered a workaround for full functionality though, sending sustain cc64 via midi, so I can have glide and long release coinciding.

I have not tried the tip with the "something is stuck" idea - thanks :) I just turned on my XL trying to replicate this now, so far nothing, works normal again (coldstart).

naturecol
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Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:13 am

Re: Voyager acts up when release and glide knobs are engaged (auto triggers rapidly)

Post by naturecol » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:06 am

oh well, many updates and a very revealing revelation: so I booted it up, thing acted up weird without warmup (which is a good sign if you ask me) then I tried your tip to plug cables into socket (something stuck) and beware, when plugging something into the S&H gate in, the jerkyness disappears even with both release and glide switches on!

now I am scratching my head as to why this could be, back to reading the manual. starting to think this could be either a bug or some setting I am unaware of, but so far everything seems normal. any ideas how the lfo could be interacting with the gate circuitry of the S&H module?

naturecol
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Re: Voyager acts up when release and glide knobs are engaged (auto triggers rapidly)

Post by naturecol » Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:16 am

last update so far: when I apply a voltage (I guess more than 2.5V, I used the modwheel out for this) to the gate input, and surpass modwheel center position (half the way) synth starts acting up again. so essentially I get these tilts only when LFO is on a positive pulse or when s&h gate is being triggered, I really wonder what could be the cause of this. faulty connector? software settings?

Markyboard
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Re: Voyager acts up when release and glide knobs are engaged (auto triggers rapidly)

Post by Markyboard » Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:00 am

Ummm, can you answer my first questions regarding the oscillators and other parameters that may have affect? Also I assume this happens on any patch?

If I had to guess I'd say something voltage threshold related is affecting your VCA. Trying toggling you Env Gate switch a number of times to dismiss that as a possibility.

naturecol
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Re: Voyager acts up when release and glide knobs are engaged (auto triggers rapidly)

Post by naturecol » Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:19 am

jep, if I don't mention it, your assumptions are correct, it happens with every patch, on a disconnected device (midi, audio cables patch field empty etc). I tried a lot to get rid of it, including turning and patching everything and rocking the switches many times just to make it disappear or at least react to my input, but apart from plugging something into s&h gate in, nothing works.

Markyboard
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Re: Voyager acts up when release and glide knobs are engaged (auto triggers rapidly)

Post by Markyboard » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:59 pm

You said early on you re-seated the cable in the mod wheel assembly. Did you also do this on the other end of the cable?

There's nothing obvious coming to me. The only place S&H has an commonality with the LFO is they're both controlled by the same rate and also both feed into the mod buses - if selected. Maybe the infamous decoder problem is at play here. I don't know if the XL was affected by the part lot problem. But even if your unit was not one affected by this any chip can fail for various reasons.

Still hoping Rudy will chime in here. Where are you located (roughly)? You may want to contact Moog Service. Phone calls work for the quickest response.

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RL
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Re: Voyager acts up when release and glide knobs are engaged (auto triggers rapidly)

Post by RL » Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:16 pm

Hi Marc,
how loud is the noise generator output? Is it louder than one oscillator (same amount positions of course)?
Rudi

naturecol
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Re: Voyager acts up when release and glide knobs are engaged (auto triggers rapidly)

Post by naturecol » Sat Oct 03, 2020 5:27 am

Hi Rudy,

I think you meant me, I am the one with the voyager issue ;) - noise is 2db louder than each of oscillators - hope this helps

n

naturecol
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Re: Voyager acts up when release and glide knobs are engaged (auto triggers rapidly)

Post by naturecol » Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:22 am

Markyboard wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:59 pm You said early on you re-seated the cable in the mod wheel assembly. Did you also do this on the other end of the cable?
did so now, to no avail unfortunaltey
Maybe the infamous decoder problem is at play here.
never heard about it
Where are you located (roughly)? You may want to contact Moog Service. Phone calls work for the quickest response.
I'm in europe, maybe I will, so far the issue is not bothering me enough, I still wanted to mention it, more curious about the why this happens, then annoyed about it happening I guess.

n

p.s. here's a video of the issue: https://we.tl/t-GdBxM4aE9a

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RL
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Re: Voyager acts up when release and glide knobs are engaged (auto triggers rapidly)

Post by RL » Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:31 am

Hi naturecol,
if the noise is too loud the signal can disturb the CMOS switches for the modulation. You should reduce the volume of the noise with the trim pot inside. Maybe this is the reason.
I can send you photos of the trim pot position. Please send me a PM.

Rudi

Markyboard
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Location: Springfield, VA

Re: Voyager acts up when release and glide knobs are engaged (auto triggers rapidly)

Post by Markyboard » Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:12 am

Hi Rudi-

Never would have considered this. What else haven't you told us? :mrgreen:
Seriously though, thanks for your continued support!

-Mark

naturecol
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Re: Voyager acts up when release and glide knobs are engaged (auto triggers rapidly)

Post by naturecol » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:46 pm

hm, didn't get any instructions so far, is the trimpot labeled so I can find it?

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