Matriarch as MIDI controller - Sustain Pedal Issues

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davidjez
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Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:35 pm

Matriarch as MIDI controller - Sustain Pedal Issues

Post by davidjez » Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:37 am

When I try and use the Matriarch as a midi controller for a VST synth (e.g. Piano) I'm noticing weird behaviour with the sustain pedal. This is not a polarity issue as I use this fine with my Korg Minilogue. Most of the sustain functions seem ok on the Matriarch as well... BUT...

(1) If I play notes and hold them
(2) Press the sustain pedal down
(3) Play some more held notes on top
(4) Then release the sustain pedal with those keys still being held down,
(Result) The notes I'm holding disappear when they should be sustained.

When I do the same thing with my Korg Minilogue I don't have this issue using the exact same VST. Midi setup in Ableton has remote off and I've loaded the latest firmware to the Matriarch.

Has anyone else seen this? I couldn't find anything on this site or on google but it seems like a bug. The velocity sensitivity is also worse than my Minilogue and I've noticed others mentioning that. Surprising for a decent midi keyboard. Trying to determine if I should keep the synth as it needs to pull its weight for month HW synth and midi controller.

Thanks in advance!

Markyboard
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Location: Springfield, VA

Re: Matriarch as MIDI controller - Sustain Pedal Issues

Post by Markyboard » Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:35 pm

Just tried it out monitoring the midi data.

On a "normal" controller holding the sustain pedal does not prevent Note Off messages from being transmitted. The sustain pedal will continue to hold those notes until the pedal is released. The Matriarch prevents notes off messages from being transmitted while the sustain pedal is engaged. When the pedal is released it then sends the note off messages of those notes that were released.

So if you play the same notes on second press they will be cut off. If you press and hold different notes after engaging the sustain pedal they should be held even after the sustain pedal is disengaged.

I complained about the velocity curve early on. I think Moog knows about it and may have decided good enough.

davidjez
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Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 8:35 pm

Re: Matriarch as MIDI controller - Sustain Pedal Issues

Post by davidjez » Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 pm

Thanks for checking this out. I appreciate it.

It really does make the use of the Matriarch as a midi controller less than ideal. As a piano player the way it handles sustain makes it unusable for piano style playing. I don't find it as bad for synth plugins and so forth.

Kind of sad. You wouldn't think MIDI would be an issue these days...

Cheers,
Dave

eritiro
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Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:31 pm

Re: Matriarch as MIDI controller - Sustain Pedal Issues

Post by eritiro » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:34 pm

Have you folks checked what happen in the latest version of the firmware? (V1.2)
Fixing this is kind of a deal-breaker for me :(

But I saw that in the 1.2 release notes they mention a change in the hold/sustain behavior

Pierrenoid
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Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2021 4:41 pm

Re: Matriarch as MIDI controller - Sustain Pedal Issues

Post by Pierrenoid » Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:34 pm

So I just got a matriarch and ran into this problem. I fixed it by updating the firmware to V1.2.3. Keep in mind the update might take a while--about 20 minutes.

Once updated, I booted up my DAW and realized the sustain pedal was working backwards. Come to find out that all universal sustain pedals have a polarity switch on the bottom. Once I did that, my Matriarch was working as a proper midi controller with sustain pedal. Actually, better than a midi controller! you can utilize the Matriarchs Arp/Seq to output midi info to your VST's! Hope this helps.

Nyolfen
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:15 am

Re: Matriarch as MIDI controller - Sustain Pedal Issues

Post by Nyolfen » Mon Sep 05, 2022 10:18 am

Is anyone else having this problem persist?
My matriarch firmware is v1.2.3 and I still have this problem.

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MrBlue
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Re: Matriarch as MIDI controller - Sustain Pedal Issues

Post by MrBlue » Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:29 pm

Idem :wink:
Music is emotion suspended in space and time
illustrasons

Nyolfen
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Re: Matriarch as MIDI controller - Sustain Pedal Issues

Post by Nyolfen » Tue Mar 14, 2023 4:52 pm

this issue is resolved in 1.3.0 firmware(thank you so much moog team), but a new problem is that the sustain pedal ON value is now output as 64 instead of 127...

pmumble
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Re: Matriarch as MIDI controller - Sustain Pedal Issues

Post by pmumble » Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:37 am

Sounds like the Korg "half-damper" MIDI implementation. It should be 127.

Nyolfen
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Re: Matriarch as MIDI controller - Sustain Pedal Issues

Post by Nyolfen » Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:50 am

I'm using the M-Audio SP-2, so it probably doesn't have the half-damper function. I also remember that when the firmware was 1.2.3, the output was 127.
pmumble wrote: Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:37 am Sounds like the Korg "half-damper" MIDI implementation. It should be 127.

Markyboard
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Location: Springfield, VA

Re: Matriarch as MIDI controller - Sustain Pedal Issues

Post by Markyboard » Thu Mar 16, 2023 7:51 am

Also, whether using a pedal via midi or one connected directly, sustaining a Matriarch sound only works with Keyboard Local On.

As an aside you still can't control the MW CV via MIDI.

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