Matriarch - staccato playing in paraphonic modes

[chapelier fou]

Bump. Seriously, come on Moog.

[chapelier fou]

Alright, I managed to get the support on the phone.
It's been quite interesting.
At first, I want to correct a wrong info that can be found in this topic : this behaviour was not introduced with 1.1.0. It tested it, so did the techs at Moog. I assume it's always been so. (Or was there a prior firmware ?).

Also I wanted to share some interesting tests that I made with my paraphonic synths. They all appear to have their own "philosophy". Here are my conclusions :

- Arturia microfreak :
it's actually just one filter, BUT 4 amplitude envelopes. It does allow staccato mode (if the envelope is set up properly, with no attack and no release).

- Korg Mono/Poly :
it's got 2 "trigger" modes :
"Single" would trigger the envelope once end stays at the sustain level
"multiple" would retrigger the envelope for each note.
But in any case, any subsequent note will remain held as long as the first one is held. It doesn't allow staccato notes.

- Korg Delta :
A "gate" is applied to each new note. It seems to have some ramp time before the rise and after the fall. so it's more like a very short ASR applied to each note. It allows more or less staccato notes.

- Matriarch :
A "gate" is applied to each note. There is some sort of ASR applied to the gate, but there is a delay after the sustain. So it's more like a "ASDelR" enveloppe. It doesn't allow staccato notes.

So, all in all,

I don't know if this "delay" applied to the gate has a digital/software origin, but I'd love to be able to avoid it, or at least reduce it to the maximum (I'm aware that a short envelope must be applied to avoid clicks). Maybe it could be a "globals" setting, so we could choose "nervous" or "smooth" staccato ?

[Synth.builder]

I assume it's always been so.

We may be discussing different things but the time lag on note release in paraphonic mode was not present in firmware 1.1.0. Notes are heard as they are played in 1.1.0. It was only in 1.2.x that the problem is present.

Each of the four Matriarch VCOs have their own VCA. This is controlled with a gate like control signal that simply turns each VCO on and off. The main envelopes are not affected by this problem. What seems to be happening is that the individual control signals to the oscillator VCAs stay high for a little too long after the note is no longer being played.

[chapelier fou]

I'll check version 1.1.0. I was almost sure I did.
Anyway, you're right about your description of the issue. It's so annoying.

[chapelier fou]

Damn, I don't know what happened last time when I tried 1.1.0 for comparison... but yeah, Paraphonic mode IS working properly in 1.1.0 !!!
It's definitely a firmware issue that NEEDS to be fixed !

[Matthew Ashmore]

It's a new year and 2022 seems like a wonderful year to iron out any final matriarch bugs. What say you Moog? lets do dis!

any plans for more updates of any kind or is the matriarch in its final form? Not a huge deal at all. but some kind of state of the union on further matriarch plans if any would be aces.

[Synth.builder]

... but some kind of state of the union on further matriarch plans if any would be aces.

I don't think anyone from Moog visits here that often. It's best if you want something in particular to be looked at to contact Moog directly via their support page. The more people that request that something needs to be fixed the more likely they are to fix it.

[0nemogin]

Have to say it's criminal that moog still haven't addressed this issue.

[chapelier fou]

Have to say it's criminal that moog still haven't addressed this issue.

Isn't it ? I can understand that they don't give a f"ck of people like you and me, but how comes that the influencers (you know, people that count) don't talk about this ? Or 'real famous artists' if such a thing exists. Anyway, shame on you Moog.

[chapelier fou]

pointless bump.
Please someone in the US call them by phone(as it's the only way to reach support). I did twice, it cost me like 30€ and they were so arrogant.

[mcmorrise]

Just got off the phone with Adam at Moog Music. I had to get ungrounded PSUs and am having trouble with what seems to be the same gate issue, so I'm sending him a video of the problem and a link to this thread.

Hi, Adam! I hope we get more Moog reps reading the forum.

[chapelier fou]

Fingers crossed. Hard.

[mcmorrise]

I'm sending him a video of the problem and a link to this thread.

I'm filming my video now. In the interest of being scientific, I decided to measure the internal gate lag. Assuming normal gate operation has near-instantaneous release — ±5ms or so, similar to the main VCA attack and release — we should be able to assess how long the lag is.

I sent MIDI notes from Logic: a 5-second C1 and C2, with two one-second holds on C4 and E4 every other second. I recorded Matriarch's output and analyzed it in iZotope RX. I zoomed in carefully to get as close to the actual notes as possible, but consider human margin of error at ±1ms for my numbers.

You'll notice that my selection is 1.128 seconds long. Yes, internal gate releases have 128 milliseconds of lag. Even if they're not instantaneous, they should be at most 5 ms, the same as the VCA, no?

I've provided a wav and midi (120 bpm) in a zipped folder if you want to replicate this experiment or analyze my file yourself, if you have better metering tools. I think Logic may have compensated for latency since the onset of the first note appears just before 1s.

[chapelier fou]

Thanks for doing this !

[voyager0500]

I really hope they're working on an update for this as it's been almost 2 years since the last one. There are quite a few bugs that need to be ironed out.