x3 Mothers connection help

Tabletop Semi-Modular Analog Synthesizers
timenet1
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:11 pm

x3 Mothers connection help

Post by timenet1 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:37 pm

Hello everyone, this is my first modular, I just got x3 Mothers and need help connecting them together. What would be the best way of connecting them together, Could someone provide detailed instruction. Also I would like to be able to use effect pedal, and run 3 mothers through the effect and to my interface. Thank you......

Dlo33
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:31 pm

Re: x3 Mothers connection help

Post by Dlo33 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:51 pm

You can use cv/gate outputs for syncing all three to be a uniformed voice. Another option would be using one of the mothers square lfo outputs, multiplying it and using that to sync all 3 tempo wise. Other than that just start patching and see what works! With your interface if it has send/return in and outs just plug all three into the interface and use the send return to go through your effects unit.

Stevie Ray
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:25 pm

Re: x3 Mothers connection help

Post by Stevie Ray » Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:35 pm

I understand from your question that you need a common audio path from the 3 mothers through to your effects. Dio33 above has already explained the CV/Gate/Sync side of it.

Simplest way is just to use a basic 3-channel mixer with sends and returns for your effects (Behringer and Mackie make excellent low-cost 4-channel mixers with FX send and return channels).

I you don't have a mixer, you can sort of get there by cascading the output of one mother to the ext audio input of another...

Mother #1 VCA OUT --> Mother #2 EXT AUDIO IN
Mother #2 VCA OUT --> Mother #3 EXT AUDIO IN
Mother #3 Line Out (rear jack) --> effects pedal input

It's not an ideal solution as you need to juggle the levels of mothers using the MIX knobs (vco noise/ext) on mothers #2 and #3 - it's tricky and you lose the use of that mixer for anything else you might want to do in the patch.

I would avoid patching any of the mother's VCA OUTs directly into your effects. The signal is much hotter (higher AC voltage) than some effects can properly handle. It's unlikely to cause any damage but it will probably overload the FX input stage and lead to clipping/distortion.

A decent little dedicated mixer with FX send/returns is a small investment compared to 3 mothers.

I have 3 mothers in a Eurorack case and its more fun than a barrel of monkeys :D

User avatar
Vsyevolod
Posts: 712
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:38 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: x3 Mothers connection help

Post by Vsyevolod » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:39 pm

Dlo33 wrote:You can use cv/gate outputs for syncing all three to be a uniformed voice. Another option would be using one of the mothers square lfo outputs, multiplying it and using that to sync all 3 tempo wise.


Hey Dio, would you be so kind as to go into more detail about your 'syncing the tempo of all three Mother's together? I don't quite follow you.

Stephen




.

timenet1
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: x3 Mothers connection help

Post by timenet1 » Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:30 am

Thank You everyone for such a great help. What I ended up doing, I got myself a mixer. I got Mackie ProFX8v2. I know it is probably overkill but it works like a charm. Last night I was watching a lot of videos with people playing x2, x3 Mothers and finally I got one video where I was able to see that all three audio outs were connected so I figured that there must be some kind of mixer involved. So today I did some research. From what is available locally I decided to get Mackie so I was looking at smaller one and than I found ProFX8v2 for $229-$30 rebate from Mackie. I could run effect pedal through aux send and return also it's got effects build in, and they sound OK. Very nice small mixer. Thank you all again, great forum great people.....

Stevie Ray
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:25 pm

Re: x3 Mothers connection help

Post by Stevie Ray » Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:22 pm

Good choice. I've never tried a mixer with built-in effects but unless you already have a ton of effects lying around it seems like a sensible move.

I don't think it's overkill at all. You'd be amazed how fast you run out of channels. I did consider buying a Eurorack mixer module to keep everything inside the box but they are too expensive and feature-limited, and they take up too much precious panel space.

The ProFX 8v2 looks rugged has an internal power supply which is good. External power bricks on a mixer are a bit of deal killer for me.

Have fun!

timenet1
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: x3 Mothers connection help

Post by timenet1 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:31 am

Could you guys share what specific brand names and models of mixers you are using? I had to return my Mackie, one of the Gaine would not work, I am looking for some other mixer. Thank you...

User avatar
HookedOnSonics
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:30 pm

Re: x3 Mothers connection help

Post by HookedOnSonics » Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:51 pm

We have the ProFX 12v2. Like it allot, only quirk is the FX, only cause we have a room full of pedals, so I don't use the FX on the Pro12, if i do it again, i would get a Pro 12 type of mixer only this time without the effects on board.

Now for the Mothers, "Red" turned us on to a mimi-me Mix called ART PowerMIX III. Send all three moms audio outs to ART class ... and JSharpphoto turned us on to MIDI Qaud Solution, another cool box to send all three MIDI in's to the QAUD's MIDI thru and then hook up anything you want on the other side.

Both the ART and Qaud are so tiny and compact that they can sit right next to your moms which is cool cause then you can get shorter "CABLES", now that's a fan favorite... :-).

I've have the ART along with with a Minitaur arriving today to join our Moms. What i don't know yet is when we plug in all three moms audio outs to the ART, can we then only take/need one audio cable from the ART and plug that into to one mono on our Pro12, that would be nice!!!
Moog One - Tranquility BASE, Model D, Vintage 2016, Voyager of Sinbad XL, Theremin+, FoogerFamilyOfSix, 3MothersLikeNoOthers, Kronos II - InstantKarma'sGonnaGetYou, Hooked a Full Size KARP, Naboo Royal MiniTaur, White H9s, Criklon, ElektronRytmAvenueMKII

Stevie Ray
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:25 pm

Re: x3 Mothers connection help

Post by Stevie Ray » Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:21 pm

The gain wouldn't work? Strange.

Were you connecting the M32s to line input channels on the mixer or the pre-amped channels? In what way did the gain not work? Signal too low or something else?

I use an Allen & Heath ZED 24 for main mix, and a Mackie 1202-VLZ Pro and two Mackie 402-VLZ4 mini-mixers for keyboard sub-mixing, but any mixer should work.

User avatar
Vsyevolod
Posts: 712
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:38 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: x3 Mothers connection help

Post by Vsyevolod » Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:54 pm

Mackie makes a fine product for what you're looking for. Just because you found one that had an issue doesn't mean the next one will. That's like buying a BMW, taking it for a spin and getting a flat tire and wanting a different brand of car after that. Seriously, if you are looking for a quality product, you'll be fine staying with Mackie for the price range you're looking for.

Stephen




.

timenet1
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: x3 Mothers connection help

Post by timenet1 » Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:14 am

I connected to first three lines. Line 1 and 2 had no problem with gain and line 3 would not do anything. That was my first mixer ever. There was something about sound quality also, I did not like it right away. So I returned the Mackie and after some research I got Yamaha MG12XU. This one sounds very nice comparing to Mackie. At first I was looking at MG10XU, it is a smaller version of MG12XU. Than I noticed that MG10 had compression only on two lines, where MG12 had compression on for lines in addition it has sliders. I like the way Yamaha sounds, very clean plus compressors on 4 lines instead of just two. This one got 24 effects with adjustable parameters. If someone is looking for good mixer I would definitely recommend to look at the Yamaha, before I got Yamaha I was looking at Mackie VLZ mixers and found only display units with missing power supply. I think VLZ were much better build than Pro v2. This is just what I think. I might be wrong, but looking at reviews looks like quality went wrong way......

timenet1
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: x3 Mothers connection help

Post by timenet1 » Sat Apr 23, 2016 1:11 am

OK, Yamaha is out Allen&Heath ZED10FX is in. After couple of days with Yamaha (MG12XU) I wasn't able to run external effect, when I called Yamaha tech support they told me that it is impossible to run external effects on the MG12XU, so this time I looked at the manual of the Allen&Heath just to make sure that I could run the effect loop, it wasn't easy to find. Anyway I got ZED10FX and so far so good, I was able to run Hall Of Fame through the mixer. Very nice internal effects, USB, you could use the unit as mixer and also as computer interface. Sound quality is very good..

Stevie Ray
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:25 pm

Re: x3 Mothers connection help

Post by Stevie Ray » Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:38 pm

Impossible to run external FX on the MG12XU ???

Yamaha actually said it was "impossible" when it is an obvious feature of the mixer?

I have never used an MG12XU but looking at the product manual it has AUX1 and AUX2 sends on each channel strip and two jack outputs for AUX1 and AUX2 right there on the panel. You send the AUX1 and or AUX2 submix through your external FX chain and return the output via one or more of the LINE (UNBAL) inputs.

From the MG12XU manual:-

"[SEND] jacks : You use these jacks, for example, to connect to an external effect device or a stage/studio monitoring system."

Your music store must love you. "Oh no! Here he comes again, pull down the blinds and pretend we're out!" :lol:

Anyway, glad you've finally found a mixer you can work with. The A&H ZED 24 works well for me.

User avatar
Vsyevolod
Posts: 712
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:38 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: x3 Mothers connection help

Post by Vsyevolod » Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:54 am

You heard it here first folks... Buy Mackie!!! No, don't buy Mackie, buy Yamaha!!! No, don't buy Yamaha, buy A&H!!!

Sorry, back to our regular scheduled talk about Moog stuff...

Stephen




.

Stevie Ray
Posts: 254
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:25 pm

Re: x3 Mothers connection help

Post by Stevie Ray » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:06 pm

Vsyevolod -- I think it's fair enough to discuss the mixers and effects we use with our Moogs. Personally I'm interested to hear what gear other people use with their Moogs.

Post Reply