Matriarch: multiple oscs sound is phasey, volume and bass loss

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Magpel
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Matriarch: multiple oscs sound is phasey, volume and bass loss

Post by Magpel » Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:05 am

New member here, new (used) matriarch owner. "low-intermediate" synthesist and maybe flattering myself with that.

I am the basic sound of the Matriarch with some other synths, so I'm running it in mono, filter wide open, envelops set to 0 attack, decay, and release and max sustain on both. Filter Env Amt at 0. VCA Mode set to Amp Env, Voice Mode 1. No modulations of any kind, tuned up oscs as best as I could.

When I play a sound this way with two square waves (any two) of similar volume, I am getting a cycling, extreme phasiness and volume/bass drop out. It happens in both trigger modes, and it happens in series and parallel filter modes. Once I noticed it I started hearing it in all wave forms and combos.

The sound passes through a phase where all bass disappears and there's a nasally little top down resonance sweep-like sound. It sounds like a wrinkle.

now I notice it is frequency-dependent. It seems to happen twice as frequently up each octave, but of course the bass loss is less noticeable on higher notes...Am I just complaining about physics? I have never encountered this on other synths.

Again, no modulations (that I am aware of) are in play. No patch cables attached.


Sorry to be the panicking newbie...but I am a panicking newbie. Can anyone help me understand, and work around, this behavior? Are there any Globals I should be looking at?

Thank you!

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dct
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Re: Matriarch: multiple oscs sound is phasey, volume and bass loss

Post by dct » Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:37 pm

Magpel wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 10:05 am :
The sound passes through a phase where all bass disappears and there's a nasally little top down resonance sweep-like sound. It sounds like a wrinkle.
:
Can confirm it depends on the wave type and pitch. But it is typical for analog synths with more than one VCO: A slightly detune (beating) is "standard" and enriches the sound alot, compared to straight unison DCO without any modulation. I know this from other analog synths, as well as from my current GM.

Or you are into a real detuning issue and I didn't understand your question properly. Could you upload somewhere a short audio example and cycle through the wave types?
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hieronymous
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Re: Matriarch: multiple oscs sound is phasey, volume and bass loss

Post by hieronymous » Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:38 pm

I don't have a Matriarch, but I have owned other Moog synths (Micromoog, Rogue, Little Phatty, currently own a Sirin). One thing that I didn't see in a brief look at the manual is that analog synths need to warm up. Once it's warmed up, you can then tune the oscillators - the main one to what you're playing with (A=440 or whatever), and then oscillator 2 to oscillator 1. In my experience, though, even after letting it warm up, the tuning goes off a little bit when I change octaves. That's called scaling, and it's one aspect of a synth being in tune.

hudri
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Re: Matriarch: multiple oscs sound is phasey, volume and bass loss

Post by hudri » Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:42 am

dct wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:37 pm A slightly detune (beating) is "standard" and enriches the sound alot
^^ This.

You can eliminate it by hard-syncing e.g. Osc2 to Osc1 and giving it a slightly lower frequency. Phase between the two oscs will be constant, and the sound will be dull like from a 1980s home computer.

Temperature drift does not seem to be an issue on Matriarch.

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hieronymous
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Re: Matriarch: multiple oscs sound is phasey, volume and bass loss

Post by hieronymous » Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:10 pm

hudri wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:42 am
dct wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:37 pm A slightly detune (beating) is "standard" and enriches the sound alot
Temperature drift does not seem to be an issue on Matriarch.
Interesting!

MaxFerency
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Re: Matriarch: multiple oscs sound is phasey, volume and bass loss

Post by MaxFerency » Wed Jun 22, 2022 8:18 pm

Some of the knobs on the Matriarch can be very sensitive. I’ve had situations where at first glance all the osc looked like they in tune but when I played it sounded off because their tuning knobs were just slightly off center.

But first I’d do a factory reset through the global parameters. There are other thread on here with links to user-made editors to more easily modify those parameters.

So once you do the factory reset, then try to make sure all the knobs are zeroed in as much as possible.
Max Ferency | http://maxferency.org | max [at] maxferency [dot] org
SYSTEM: macOS & Logic X Pro
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Magpel
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Re: Matriarch: multiple oscs sound is phasey, volume and bass loss

Post by Magpel » Mon Jun 27, 2022 4:33 pm

Thanks folks, I appreciate the help and insight. I did a recalibration routine and the "problem" got much much better. I was not freaking out at the sound of a little oscillator phasing, or at least I don't think I was; what I was hearing from my Matriarch with square waves in the same register seemed pretty dramatic. (judge for yourself at link below).

In any case, after the recalibration, the oscillator phasing is well within limits I can live with and love. And I simply can't get it to to cycle nearly to silence anymore, like it does in the link below.

You'd need to listen to about 30 seconds to hear it happen. I prepared this file for Moog tech Support.

Thanks again. I am now fully loving my Matriarch and making daily progress with it. Hope to be an active member here.

https://soundcloud.com/subfamilyrecords ... tion-issue

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