MOOG 15 QUESTIONS

System 55 • System 35 • Model 15
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elcatllar
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MOOG 15 QUESTIONS

Post by elcatllar » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:05 pm

Hello,
I am new about moog modulars and I have one 2 questions for one moog 15.
1) I know that the 921 can be used as an oscillator or as an lfo. It is possible to do both things together ? Can I use the 3 Moog 15 oscillators for audio and the 921 in the same time to get for example a vibrato?
2) If not, maybe a solution will be get the Synth. com keyboard for example with an extra lfo module that you can fit in the same keyb, and so use the 3 Moog oscillators for audio purposes.
3) Finally, I am surprised to see that Moog has remade the modulars again ( hard work to get NOS parts....) and that they have NOT decide to offer the original Moog patch cables that as far as I know can still be ordered by the original maker :switchcraft.
Even one other modular maker offer them by custom pre-order (with a minimun order).
A few years a go, I was in contact with switchcraft myself and they offer me the option to buy the cables in 3 lengths and 3 colors, finally I stopped the deal because there was a minimun order. Maybe now with more interested people we could make a group buy?
It would be great to have again this original cables.
Any help & comments will be great!
Thank you in advance
elcatllar

mikeh11
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Re: MOOG 15 QUESTIONS

Post by mikeh11 » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:33 pm

The 921 has a "Coarse Range" switch that switches between the "Sub-Audio" and "Audio" ranges.
One or the other, not both at once.
(This answers your other posting with the same question, too.)

The 921 makes a very flexible LFO, while the 921A and two 921Bs are usually the "audio" oscillators (although they can go quite low, also).
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EricK
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Re: MOOG 15 QUESTIONS

Post by EricK » Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:38 pm

You "can" do what you are describing, but your modulation rate (lfo) would be in the audio range. You are describing FM Synthesis.
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synthguy
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Re: MOOG 15 QUESTIONS

Post by synthguy » Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:20 am

I've owned a bigger 55 system for a long time, but the limitations in regards to oscillators vs LFO's are still pretty much the same.

The 921b can be used as an LFO, but all 921b oscillators track the 921a, so you can't make the other 921b track the keyboard without the 921b LFO speeding up and slowing down as you play up and down the keyboard (probably not what you want to happen). It's frustrating. Having a keyboard with a built-in LFO is a useful solution that would address this directly.

If you check out my blog listed below, I discuss this very problem, the various ramifications, and what I did about it to make my system much more versatile, under the post "Getting some serious control of the Moog 55".

I love the Switchcraft cables as well, but getting them remade seems to be a major obstacle. I've dealt with Switchcraft before on another project, and they seem slow and very disorganized. I remember someone trying to get a quote on the various-sized cables a year or so ago (maybe you?) but never heard any more about it, and am not suprised.
They usually also want to sell a custom order through one of their distributors instead of directly, which will raise the price accordingly. By the time all is said and done, I'll bet that even if we could make an order and get it through their maddeningly disorganized offices, no one will want to buy them at that price.

I was lucky enough to find some on Ebay in several different lengths over the years, and although they don't have the cool color coded plugs like the ones that came with my system, they work very well indeed.
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elcatllar
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Re: MOOG 15 QUESTIONS

Post by elcatllar » Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:18 pm

Thank you very much for your help!
I will see to have a keyboard with a LFO in order to get the 921 free for audio purposes.
About the cables, yes you are right, when I was in contact with them, they finally send me to the Spanish dealer (where I live). For me any problem!
But the big issue was that they charged a lot more only to get the order done by the local dealer. Finally the price was by far to expensive.
Maybe the solution will be to do a group order, contact the brand.... here in the states and later send the cables to each one.

elcatllar
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Re: MOOG 15 QUESTIONS

Post by elcatllar » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:10 am

Hello,
Finally I have ordered one of the new Moog 15 system + the keyb.( it seems that it was maybe the last one).
I have a few comments:
1) I have ask to get the moog SERVICE manual also.
2) Will Moog provide service & support for this machines ? ( spare parts....) in the next future?. As other companies that have sold recreations using NOS parts, they use to keep some valuable parts in order that the costumers can keep alive their machines.
3) Now the next step will be found the way the buy a keyboard with an extra LFO, bender module like the synt.com.
Maybe also I will look for a second cabinet to fit future modules, sequencer.....
4) I have found in my old moog literature info about a book??? " setting up your Moog synthesizer". Where can I found a copy of this?
Thank you in advance

elcatllar
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Re: MOOG 15 QUESTIONS

Post by elcatllar » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:30 pm

Hello!
About the way to get the 921 free for audio purposes and also the option to get a modulation, I have figure some options:
1) To buy a extra module like the Moslab 921 and/or a Synth.com.
2) The moog CP-251 module that has a LFO.
3) A synthesizer as a controller...
Questions: the CP-251 will be a good option? what will also offer this module on top of the extra LFO with my moog 15 and/or also my new minimoog?
Still I will love to have a modulation bender to control my 15 as the Minimoog, instead using my new modular 15 keyboard.
To resume: Maybe the best will be to get the CP-251 or a synthesizer like a phatty considering the cost to get a extra module like the moslab 921 + the power + a cabinet....
Please let me know your comments.

EricK
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Re: MOOG 15 QUESTIONS

Post by EricK » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:38 pm

Roger's new dotcom keyboard design isn't the best but that might be what you need. A Kenton Pro 2000 Midi to CV converter might be in order also.

Moog's specs for their keyboard used to contain a list for possible upgrades. That panel on the back of your keyboard would have contained some CV and midi outs, and you know, the inside of that is suitable for holding some circuits and the panel allows for some drilling.

Nothing wrong with more cabinets though. I own the Moslab 921 module and it is awesome. You can always get some stuff to compliment what the 15 lacks. More envelopes, alternate filters some 901 based oscillators to get the most out of voice 2.
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elcatllar
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Re: MOOG 15 QUESTIONS

Post by elcatllar » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:57 pm

Dear Eric,
Thank you for your comments.
In fact I had several years before a Moslab system and I liked a lot. Also the fact that I live in Spain, was a reason to choose this brand that is made in france instead of for example the synthesizers.com.
I will start to order a Moslab cabinet to complement my moog 15. I only hope that Seb (Moslab guy) will not have a big delay in deliveries.

elcatllar
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Re: MOOG 15 QUESTIONS

Post by elcatllar » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:01 pm

By the way!
What will you suggest to buy about the moslab option to complement my moog 15?
921 to get an extra LFO, high pass filter, extra mixer......
Please let me know?

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MC
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Re: MOOG 15 QUESTIONS

Post by MC » Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:24 pm

Check out Club Of The Knobs. Not all clones but interesting variety for the 5U format.
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EricK
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Re: MOOG 15 QUESTIONS

Post by EricK » Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:49 pm

elcatllar wrote:By the way!
What will you suggest to buy about the moslab option to complement my moog 15?
921 to get an extra LFO, high pass filter, extra mixer......
Please let me know?


The Moog 15 has "921" series oscillators. A & B style.
Those all have a 'Lo" mode and multiple outputs so those are all LFOs.
The 921Bs are traditionally used to do the main voices, and the 921 serves as the lfo. It's better suited for LFO because the 921 has a greater range, the aux outputs, the waveform clamping, etc. But either version is great for the LFO duties.
So in addition to a system 15 I would probably get a 921abb & 921 combo.

Synth-Werk produces Moog's original 901 oscillator design, and just like the 921 series, those all function the same as either a voice or LFOS. They also have a tonal difference characteristic of the original Moogs.

You might also want to get a high pass filter (904B) and maybe a few more 911a envelopes or a second low pass filter (904a)
The CP style mixers are also a must if you do invest in more oscillators. And even an extra VCA or two won't hurt.


There are a lot of other options in addition to the traditional moog voice creation and processing modules.

STG Soundlabs has some good modules, like wave folders, EMS Synthi style envelopes, ARP filters, EMS filters.
And of course there are various sequencers if that is your thing.
Synth-Werk just came out with a clone of the Bode 6401 Ring Modulator which I will be ordering in the future.

Here's my modular. It's a three voice modular. There's a 921 voice, a 901 voice, and a dotcom voice. 2 sequencers and some other stuff. It's pretty traditional. It's a hybrid of the old Moog IIIp and the Moog 55 in that it has both style oscillators and the matrix mixer. And there's room to get the inductor based filter bank and some other goodies in time.
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elcatllar
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Re: 15 with minimoog....

Post by elcatllar » Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:38 pm

Finally I have received my new 15 and minimoog yesterday !!!. But unfortunately not the 15 keyboard.
Here I have some questions:
1) The way to play the 15 from the (new) minimoog? the cable patch connections?
2) And also if I want simply add one or more 15 oscillators to the minimoog?
Thank you in advance

EricK
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Re: MOOG 15 QUESTIONS

Post by EricK » Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:08 pm

The original minimoog wasn't really designed for that because it never had any CV outs. It's questionable that Moog designed these legacy products continuing the S-trig tradition and then cloned the Minimoog, gave it CV outs and didn't give it Cinch-Jones S-trig outs.

You will need a cable which will convert the gate out to an S-trig plug to fire the envelopes.

To process the 921s through the Minimoog Audio Input:
You'll need to send the Minimoog pitch cv to the Freq Control input on the 921a.
Choose waveshapes on 1 or more 921b and send them to the CP mixer.
Send the CP mixer out to your Minimoog's audio input and that's it.

Take some time to go through that beautifully bound manual that they had printed up and look for any patching examples. It's pretty straight forward.
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