Help with pitch patch

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Rarecomponentadsr
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Help with pitch patch

Post by Rarecomponentadsr » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:43 pm

I'm trying to create a patch that produces a rising pitch to each note ...a little like a trumpet or sax player does on some notes ....I know glide and pitch bend can do this but I'm looking for something regular and controlled for each note.
The only way I have come near so far is by patching an EG into a CP3 and taking a minus output and feeding into the cv control of the 921a and then adjusting the various controls . But it's not so good...any tips on this ?

EricK
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Re: Help with pitch patch

Post by EricK » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:13 am

You want that Miles Davis' type of "missed note" flurp at the beginning of the attack? In addition to the pitch rise, maybe insert some noise in there (as an fm source) to simulate that embouchure buzz.

Take the patch you have, mult the envelope source and mix some noise in there with it, but try a VCA to attenuate the noise out so you get it just on the attack.

Let me know if this gets you any closer.




This comes from the Voyager manual but I think it uses noise as an audio source:

Envelope to Noise level for noise component at the attack of a note.
Some sounds have a burst of noise at the beginnings of a note or “chiff ” – for instance a flute or a pipe organ. This configuration digs a little deeper into the Voyager to achieve this effect.
- Initialize the Voyager’s parameters.
- Set the OSC1 WAVE control to Triangle wave
- Set the FILTER ENVELOPE controls to the following settings:
ATTACK: 1 msec DECAY: 100 msec SUSTAIN: 0 RELEASE: 0
- Using a patch cable, connect the VX-351 Filter Envelope output (ENVS FILTERS) to the CP-251 MIXER 1 input.
- Set the CP-251 MIXER 1 Input and the MASTER level controls to 10. Set the OFFSET control to –2 (about 10 o’ clock on the dial).
- Using a patch cable, connect the CP-251 Mixer Output (OUT +) to the Voyager’s MOD2 Input.
- Set the Voyager’s PEDAL/ON MOD BUSS controls to the following settings:
SOURCE: ON/MOD2 DESTINATION: LFO/PGM SHAPING: ON/PGM AMOUNT: 10.
- In the Edit menu select menu 2.4, ‘PGM PEDAL DEST’ and press ENTER. Scroll through the programmable destinations and select ‘NOISE LEVEL’
- In the Voyager’s Mixer section, set the NOISE switch to ‘ON’, and adjust the NOISE level control to 5.
- Set the Voyager’s AMOUNT TO FILTER control to +2.
- In the Edit Menu select menu 3.4, ‘TRIGGER MODES’. Set the trigger mode to ‘Multi-triggering’.
Page 106
Now when you play a note, you should hear a noise component at the beginning of the note. Playing with a combination of filter envelope times, filter cutoff, noise level, and Pedal/On Mod Buss amount will make this effect more or less perceptible. Selecting ‘OSCILLATOR LEVELS’ as the Programmable Mod Destination can yield some interesting effects as well.

-----------------------------

But for your situation, maybe mult the envelope and mix that with some noise and send both of those to the pitch, but use a VCA to attenuate the noise in conjunction with the attack of the envelope so the noise appears only at the attack but gets attenuated out.
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Rarecomponentadsr
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Re: Help with pitch patch

Post by Rarecomponentadsr » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:00 am

Thanks Eric

To be honest the info from the Voyager manual has lost me as I've never touched a Voyager but thanks for posting it anyway.
But what do you mean by "mult" the envelope ? Is it add another EG ? It's the pitch I'm concerned with rather than the noise as there's some applications I just simply want pitch rise. I think Music From Outer Space did a pitch rise module but I don't want a non Moog in my system .
So far the way I'm doing it works best on filter oscillation rather than oscillator but again neither are very good.

EricK
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Re: Help with pitch patch

Post by EricK » Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:54 pm

You are using the envelope to control pitch. I’m suggesting mixing this with noise.
But you don’t want noise modulating the pitch all through the note, but rather just on the attack.
So try, if you have the available modules, to multiply the envelope output. Mix one with noise to get the pitch modulation, but have the vca attenuate the noise out of the mix after the attack by inserting the noise into the VCA before the mixer. Then send the multiplied envelope out to that vca. That VCA should closely follow the pitch rise, but you should be able to eliminate the noise by the time you end up on the desired note.
I’m thinking this will simulate the embouchure buzz with the note rise.

Envelope>mult>CP Mixer>921a
Mult>Vca (Maybe insert an Attenuator before the VCA)
Noise>Vca>Mixer

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Rarecomponentadsr
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Re: Help with pitch patch

Post by Rarecomponentadsr » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:27 pm

Thanks Eric ...

I'm finding that patching the eg into the VCA control and then taking the bottom output to attenuator and then into the 921a control is the best I'm getting so far so thanks for the tip about using VCA, that has certainly helped.

But on the whole I'm not getting what I want .

In fact there is a brilliant example of pitch rise from Carlos Clockwork Orange soundtrack. It's the actual March section from the 9th's last movement, the bit where the march begins and the piccolos announce the motif. That particular timbre, in my opinion, is one of the best iconic sounds from a Modular. It's probably on You tube or somewhere. I wonder how this was done but alas I guess we will never know.

EricK
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Re: Help with pitch patch

Post by EricK » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:49 pm

I have that album, I'll listen for it. I sent you a pm also.
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AlakaLazlo
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Re: Help with pitch patch

Post by AlakaLazlo » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:44 pm

I haven't listened to Clockwork lately, but I've done lots of these types of patches over the years. The concept to understand is that there needs to be some randomness to the amount and time of the initial pitch imperfection. When a horn or sax player hits a note, it may be off just slightly and they then correct it with their ear. The amount of initial imperfection and the time to correct are very (VERY) small, and are not constant. To mimic this, I use 2 sets of oscillators and have the second slightly detuned for the final sound. The second set is modulated with an envelope (attack at 0, decay very fast (2-3ms), no sus, no rel) inverted through a VCA. By adding just a touch of this to the second oscillator's pitch input, you get an initial pitch imperfection. To make it slightly random, control the pitch VCA with a small amount of CV output from a sample and hold sampling noise and clocked by the KBD trigger so every time you hit a key, the VCA gets a (very!) slightly different amount of negative envelope.(If you have a VCADSR as your modulation source, modulate the delay with the same SH/output through an attenuator so the amount of decay varies ever so slightly as well.) If you want more control of the "brap" and your Kbd has velocity out, then use that to modulate the VCA gating the pitch EG as well. The harder you hit the key, the more pitch imperfection. Track your filter from the KbdCV and adjust for taste. Filter EG should be 0/3-4ms/3ms/6-7sus so there is a noticeable brightness brap at the front of the note, again adjusted for taste. Audio VCA similar to filter, but a bit slower on the decay and with a touich of release. It takes a bit of practice to apply just the right amount of envelope and randomness to make it sound natural.

Rarecomponentadsr
Posts: 99
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:08 pm
Location: Derbyshire England

Re: Help with pitch patch

Post by Rarecomponentadsr » Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:57 pm

Okay thanks for this...I need to check this out step by step but there's some good tips here.

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