Moog Music Forum

Share Ideas and Pass the word

Electronic components

System 55 • System 35 • Model 15

Electronic components

Postby Gaetano Di Giorgio » Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:28 am

Good morning precious forum,
i need to change some component(Capacitors and resistors) in my modular Cotk
My Synth is very nice but i search the my sound.I am interested in companies that sell components similar to that used by the Moog in the 60's and early 70's for the construction of modular, such as electrolytic capacitors and resistors carbonic.
In this link you know you recommend the right company?
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/componentshome.html
Many thanks and see you soon
gaeM
Gaetano Di Giorgio
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:02 am

Re: Electronic components

Postby analogmonster » Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:26 am

Gaetano Di Giorgio wrote:Good morning precious forum,
i need to change some component(Capacitors and resistors) in my modular Cotk
My Synth is very nice but i search the my sound.I am interested in companies that sell components similar to that used by the Moog in the 60's and early 70's for the construction of modular, such as electrolytic capacitors and resistors carbonic.
In this link you know you recommend the right company?
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/componentshome.html
Many thanks and see you soon
gaeM


I'm not shure whether I understand you correctly. COTK build clones with actual components. I don't recommend to replce these components by old ones or by old types. The circuits work as they are. And - the sound of your COTK System wouldn't change if you'd exchange the components. That might even be dangerous for your system.

The only issue I could imagine is to buy an inductor based FFB (907) from them. This module adds some cool non linearities to the sound because they use real inductors instead of electronic replacements.
User avatar
analogmonster
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:50 am
Location: Germany

Re: Electronic components

Postby Gaetano Di Giorgio » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:20 pm

Analogmonster, thanks.
I don't search NOS
But a company between these http://www.hificollective.co.uk/componentshome.html or others that produces (components resistors and capacitors) modern but similar to that of the old Moog modular.

Cheers
gaeM
Gaetano Di Giorgio
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:02 am

Re: Electronic components

Postby noddyspuncture » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:18 am

Sounds to me like you need an actual Modular Moog, and "clones" just don't do it for you...!? :)

Cheers,
Tom
User avatar
noddyspuncture
 
Posts: 419
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:57 pm

Re: Electronic components

Postby Gaetano Di Giorgio » Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:57 am

Hi Tom
I have a COTK; for the same would have to spend € 150,000 if it was Moog.
My modular does not convince me in the filters but otherwise I find it best to Moog, as in oscillators that have a warmer sound and harmonious.
I have to change some component filters, I have already done successfully replaced with orange but not enough.
Stay well
Gaetano Di Giorgio
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:02 am

Re: Electronic components

Postby EricK » Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:36 am

The Moog Sound is totally a subjective thing and though I don't have the slightest bit of electrical knowledge, I don't think you will find what it is you are looking for with just a few component changes, and I agree with analog monster that you probably shouldn't go this route for safety reasons.

What modules do you have?
Support the Bob Moog Foundation:
https://npo.networkforgood.org/Donate/Donate.aspx?npoSubscriptionId=4043

I think I hear the mothership coming.
EricK
 
Posts: 5968
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 2:09 pm

Re: Electronic components

Postby Gaetano Di Giorgio » Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:33 am

Hello Erick

With a different electronic component the sound change totally.
Experience!
This is my modular:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6LrCL8JAPE
Stay well
gaeM
Gaetano Di Giorgio
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:02 am

Re: Electronic components

Postby JohnLRice » Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:16 am

Hi my friend! 8)

First I would suggest seeing if just exploring different patching and settings can get you to the sound you seek? Maybe if you can get as close to the sound you want as you can, post a video and description of the patch and also an example of who ever you are trying to emulate (like a Keith Emerson video etc) then someone here might be able to suggest what to do differently that might help you. For instance have you tried feeding the output of the filter back into itself?

Secondly, maybe consider trying a different brand of filter? The sound of Mos-Lab modular tends to be compared to original Moogs a lot. Maybe buy a Mos-Lab 904A and see if you like it better than the COTK C904A? Synth-Werk also makes a 904A clone.

Lastly you can try swapping out components but, this may be expensive and time consuming and not really gain you anything. Be aware that you might convince yourself that it sounds better after your changes but you'll never know for sure unless you start out with two of the same filter that sound identical, change one and then have someone help you conduct a double blind test with several other people.

Best of luck!
John L Rice
MiniMoog, MinitMoog, MG-1, Sub Phatty, 5U modulars, Eurorack modulars
User avatar
JohnLRice
 
Posts: 384
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:23 am
Location: Western WA USA

Re: Electronic components

Postby Gaetano Di Giorgio » Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:52 pm

Dear John, how are you?
One or two months ago i send you two sounds of my 904 modified by me with orange capacitors...very nice i think.
I need to change also the resistors because in the decay of the filters something is cold.
I need also to change components in one other filter 904 Cotk but in this case i search one brand that built the same components of old Moog modular but moderns.
Please, do you know in this 39 brands who prepare components like old Modular Moog?
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/componentshome.html

If you know a factory in USA that produce resistors and capacitors old Moog style, please tell me.
See ya
gaeM
Gaetano Di Giorgio
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:02 am

Re: Electronic components

Postby JohnLRice » Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:39 pm

Hi gaeM,

I can't remember if I saw the email or not. If i didn't respond I might not of seen it as I had a couple computer problems about that time and my email is still messed up.

Anyways, I don't know what brand of resistors Moog used back then . . .and they may have used several different brands depending on availability and price. As a guess, for the resistors on that site (cool site by the way!) I'd go with the Allen Bradley or maybe the Arcol.

There are going to be problems replacing resistors though if you don't have access to schematics and specifications for both the Moog and COTK modules since it may be hard to tell where 5% tolerance resistors are used and where 1% or better resistors were used. I'd guess that the original Moog modules used a lot of 5% but there may have been more trimmers used in a Moog than the COTK module might use since high precision resistors are inexpensive these days and with higher precision resistors it's possible to reliably build a consistent circuit without a lot of trimmers. You could end up making the module sound worse to you and then the more often you change components the greater the risk that you might damage a circuit trace etc.

I'm no electronics engineer or expert but I really think that capacitors, transistors, opamps and the value of resistors will affect the decay and 'warmth' of a filter a lot more than the brand and composition of the resistors.

I just hate to see you taking a lot of time chasing an elusive rabbit down the hole trying to make minor improvements. You have a wonderful and huge modular and you are a talented musician so I think you should spend your time just making the best music you can! 8) Or, if you have the money just buy a Moog Model 15 reissue to go along with your COTK? :mrgreen:
John L Rice
MiniMoog, MinitMoog, MG-1, Sub Phatty, 5U modulars, Eurorack modulars
User avatar
JohnLRice
 
Posts: 384
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:23 am
Location: Western WA USA

Re: Electronic components

Postby thealien666 » Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:02 pm

BTW, resistors have an additional color code, aside from their value, on them that identifies their tolerance: silver band 10%, gold band 5%, red band 2%, and brown band 1%. Most common are 5% and 1%.

Image
Moog Minimoog D (1975)
DSI OB6
DSI Prophet REV2
Oberheim Matrix-6
Ensoniq SQ-80
Korg DW8000
Behringer DeepMind 12
Alesis Ion
User avatar
thealien666
 
Posts: 2791
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:42 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Electronic components

Postby JohnLRice » Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:58 pm

thealien666 wrote:BTW, resistors have an additional color code, aside from their value, on them that identifies their tolerance: silver band 10%, gold band 5%, red band 2%, and brown band 1%. Most common are 5% and 1%.

:shock: O M G . . .I'm not sure what I was thinking but apparently I wasn't thinking very well at the time! :roll: :oops: I know about the tolerance band . . . .serious mental incompetence on my part I guess! :lol: Thanks for the correction! 8)
John L Rice
MiniMoog, MinitMoog, MG-1, Sub Phatty, 5U modulars, Eurorack modulars
User avatar
JohnLRice
 
Posts: 384
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:23 am
Location: Western WA USA

Re: Electronic components

Postby MC » Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:21 pm

thealien666 wrote:BTW, resistors have an additional color code, aside from their value, on them that identifies their tolerance: silver band 10%, gold band 5%, red band 2%, and brown band 1%. Most common are 5% and 1%.

Image


That chart is a little inaccurate. 1% resistors have an extra color band. They have three digits of value, whereas the others only have two digits.
Gear list: '04 Saturn Ion, John Deere X300 tractor, ganged set of seven reel mowers for 3 acres of lawn, herd of sheep for backup lawn mowers, two tiger cats for mouse population control Oh you meant MUSIC gear Oops I hit the 255 character limi
User avatar
MC
 
Posts: 2855
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:20 pm
Location: Secluded Tranquil Country

Re: Electronic components

Postby Gaetano Di Giorgio » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:44 pm

MC, please, give me a indication to similar-old Moog components in this labyrynth
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/componentshome.html
Thanks
gaeM
Gaetano Di Giorgio
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:02 am

Re: Electronic components

Postby MC » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:19 pm

Gaetano Di Giorgio wrote:MC, please, give me a indication to similar-old Moog components in this labyrynth
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/componentshome.html
Thanks
gaeM


Can't help you, I have never had a moog modular on my bench and I do not study them in depth.
Gear list: '04 Saturn Ion, John Deere X300 tractor, ganged set of seven reel mowers for 3 acres of lawn, herd of sheep for backup lawn mowers, two tiger cats for mouse population control Oh you meant MUSIC gear Oops I hit the 255 character limi
User avatar
MC
 
Posts: 2855
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:20 pm
Location: Secluded Tranquil Country

Next

Return to Modular Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests