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iOS 8.3 warning (backing up/restoring timbres)

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iOS 8.3 warning (backing up/restoring timbres)

Postby SZak » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:25 pm

The newly released iOS 8.3 breaks connectivity & functionality between iOS devices and any software you may have that will allow you to access the iOS file system, especially in each app's "documents" folder. Programs like iFunBox, iTools and similar programs no longer work for the purpose that I used them for, such as directly backing up presets & timbres to the PC since the timbres get wiped out on a device restore as they reside in a "caches" folder. If content pertinent to the app is stored in a "caches" folder, this content is not backed up when you perform an iTunes backup of the device so you cannot backup this way either because of the "caches" folder that the timbres and presets are stored in. :roll:

Are you listening, Moog? Get the timbres out of the "caches" folder, please!

I believe that these programs will need to be updated by the developers to support the new iOS 8.3. In the meantime, be aware that your timbres are in jeopardy if you restore your device or use any of the iOS "memory cleaning" utilities that wipes out any of the "caches" folders on the device.
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Re: iOS 8.3 warning (backing up/restoring timbres)

Postby Satri » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:24 pm

Thanks a bunch SZak for the warning. I shared it here: http://animoog.org/2015/04/09/ios-8-3-w ... d-timbres/

Take care -- Alex
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Re: iOS 8.3 warning (backing up/restoring timbres)

Postby SZak » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:10 pm

Doing some searching & reading around, it seems this change in iOS 8.3 was intentional by Apple, likely to further "secure" iOS but at the same time, locking users out of accessing their data from the device. Typical... :roll:

It also seems that the developers of these iOS device accessing PC/Mac programs won't be able to get around this block either...but maybe time will tell. Seems that you now NEED to jailbreak to access this data on the device directly, something I'm not at all interested in doing.

@Alex (or anyone else who knows),

I've always just used iFunBox (or similar) to load/transfer my user timbres/wave files to the iPad...very easy. Now the question: is there any way to transfer timbres/wave files to Animoog besides the now broken iFunBox method? I know how to transfer *presets* using iTunes app/file sharing which is quite easy but can see no way to transfer timbres/wave files.

Does anyone have a clue or is this now impossible? Thanks for any info.
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Re: iOS 8.3 warning (backing up/restoring timbres)

Postby Satri » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:37 am

Good question SZak - other than iTunes, I'm not aware of any other means at the moment. And if itunes doesn't work for transferring timbres, then we're stucked.

I'm not sure I want to blame Apple here. Better ways to manage the transfer of presets and timbres is really needed and should be part of Animoog, we shouldn't rely on iFunBox/iTools for such a relatively basic feature. Animoog itself should provide better options. On animoog.org, the 'improvements wish list' explores a few ways of how that could be done. Feel free to contribute to that list.

Since we got recent good news from Moog management regarding Animoog development, I hope they'll be able to able such shortcomings quickly enough... -- Alex
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Re: iOS 8.3 warning (backing up/restoring timbres)

Postby SZak » Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:20 pm

Looks like the developer of iExplorer knows of the problem and says the issue is under investigation. There's at least hope on that particular app but I've actually never used it for the purpose of backing up/transferring user timbres and presets.

http://iexplorer-support.macroplant.com ... 8-3-update

As for the other apps like iFunBox and iTools (these two I have used extensively, both with Animoog and other apps in which I want to archive app settings and data that's not normally included with an iTunes backup), I really don't know...their updates have been few and far between. We can only hope for the best.

And I agree that Animoog should provide the end-user with some sort of way to backup/transfer/restore timbres. But then I also realize that the whole timbres creation/modding/etc was a user-discovered "hack" and was likely never officially supported nor even intended to be a user feature by Moog. Again, we can only hope for the best and that Moog will supply something useful as far as user-created/modified timbres go.

And thanks for your input, Alex and posting the news on your site...

--Sergey
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Re: iOS 8.3 warning (backing up/restoring timbres)

Postby SZak » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:41 pm

Hunting around and translating web pages to English, it seems as though the developer for iTools is aware of the issue as well and is working on fix. This is great news for myself because this was the one Mac application that let you save installed apps on your device as .ipa (iPod/iPhone/iPad Application) files which contain ALL user settings and save games, etc within that app file. This was a godsend to myself since I test various apps frequently and like to be able to revert to previous app versions if I need to without having to go through re-entering all the settings, etc.

Here's the link (translated via Google Translate):

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... rev=search

--Sergey
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Re: iOS 8.3 warning (backing up/restoring timbres)

Postby Satri » Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:00 am

Thanks for the followup. Happy to see iExplorer guys are working a on fix. Hope the freebies (iFunBox and iTools) will find solutions too.

But as I mentioned, I much prefer a solution from Moog itself. Now that Apple has deployed iCloud Drive, it should be a perfect solution for custom Animoog presets and timbres... and recordings!

If anyone gets news on solutions, please post it in this thread :-) -- Alex
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Re: iOS 8.3 warning (backing up/restoring timbres)

Postby Satri » Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:32 pm

Good news, according to Tidbits: "iFunBox and iExplorer have been updated to sidestep the new security settings, but with the limitation that they work only with apps that use iTunes File Sharing."... which the case of Animoog. I haven't tested the new version, but those third-party solutions should work now. -- Alex / Satri
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Re: iOS 8.3 warning (backing up/restoring timbres)

Postby SZak » Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:58 am

Well, sadly these "fixes" really don't do anything useful except allow access to the same iTunes File Sharing system that only allows access to the *presets* in Animoog. In effect, it does exactly the same thing as iTunes File Sharing does. You still cannot access the *timbres*, either to back them up or to transfer them from the PC to the device.

I feel this accessibility will no longer be possible if you are running iOS 8.3 or greater. Seems as though Apple has blocked it and that's the end of the matter. I've been reading that those who normally wouldn't think of jailbreaking their device will now NEED to jailbreak their device to regain this file access...and sadly, I have been thinking along the same lines myself.

This affects me with not only Animoog but with apps/games my kid plays on the iPad as well. Many of these games do not backup completely with iTunes...making a backup, then restoring from a backup would lead you to believe that everything is backed up within the app/game like your save games and any progress and settings you've made. Well, many apps/games are NOT backed up completely. We've learning the hard way of this glaring issue...my kid lost all progress on many games and was devastated that he'd have to start from square one after a device restore. For this reason, I started backing up his game apps using iTools which allows you to backup the *entire app*, along with *all* save progress, settings, etc as an .ipsw file. This worked great and we could freely delete apps we were not planning to use for awhile to make space for other apps to try. We could then re-install the app from the backup we made with iTools and all progress and settings would be restored as well. Now we can no longer do this and we cannot restore previous apps/games we had backed up in this way.

Apple is just making it harder and harder for the end-user to be able to access/archive their own data on their own device, let alone, have a reliable and thorough and complete backup (which is truly a backup) :roll:
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Re: iOS 8.3 warning (backing up/restoring timbres)

Postby Satri » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:56 pm

Ah zut. Thanks SZak for your validations and precisions... so I'm back to hoping Animoog will support iCloud Drive or anything similar for moving such files around...
Animoog Beta Tester | Free albums of Animoog solos on animoog.org/satri/ | satri.bandcamp.com | Theremini | ROLI Seaboard RISE 49 | iPad Air | Alex / Satri
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Re: iOS 8.3 warning (backing up/restoring timbres)

Postby gbevin » Thu May 07, 2015 9:43 am

Hi everyone,

Just letting you know that we're now looking into this and are solving it for the next Animoog release.

Sorry for the inconvenience that this has caused!

Take care,

Geert
Geert Bevin
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Re: iOS 8.3 warning (backing up/restoring timbres)

Postby SZak » Fri May 08, 2015 10:29 pm

That's great to hear, Geert! Thanks for responding and letting us know that something is in the works. :D
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Re: iOS 8.3 warning (backing up/restoring timbres)

Postby Satri » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:53 am

Hi SZak,

Can you confirm that manually installing timbres works now with the latest Animoog version? Geert tells us it does work with the official instructions (using iTunes). I quickly tried and failed, but Geert is most probably right and I'm most probably wrong! :-) What about you? Thanks SZak! -- Alex
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Re: iOS 8.3 warning (backing up/restoring timbres)

Postby SZak » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:42 pm

Satri wrote:Hi SZak,Can you confirm that manually installing timbres works now with the latest Animoog version?


I have tested Animoog (iPad only) v2.2.4 (NOT v2.2.5 as of yet) and it's confirmed working, Alex. Also working under 3rd party file utility apps (iFunBox,etc) that have been updated to support iOS 8.3.

The files transferred (timbres, presets) have to be in a certain folder structure so this may be why it didn't work for you. What the exact structure is, I can't say right now as I don't have access to my iPads & Mac until later on. When I find out for sure, I'll post. Just wondering, is that file structure mentioned at all in the new User's Guide? I haven't scrutinized it yet, thus the reason for my asking.
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Re: iOS 8.3 warning (backing up/restoring timbres)

Postby SZak » Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:48 pm

Replying to myself to add some info as I've now tested v2.2.5

Saving & restoring your Animoog Timbres and Presets works fine under v2.2.5 (just as it did under v2.2.4).

When saving your timbres and presets from the Animoog App to iTunes file sharing, the timbres and presets are saved in the following folders (I'll use the BASE pack as an example)

The presets are stored in:
presets/BASE Pack/
    AlienAirBrakes.preset
    BadBeans.preset
    (etc)

The timbres for the matching presets are in:
categories/BASE Pack/
    1A_AcmeWhistle1.wav
    1A_AcmeWhistle2.wav
    (etc)
Just follow the folder structure above for sorting your own presets with their corresponding timbres and you should be fine. Remember that the presets are stored in the presets folder while timbres are stored in the categories folder.
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