Animoog and MIDI out - stuck notes

[littlemachine]

I've been playing around with the new MIDI out features on Animoog - on paper the perfect expressive MIDI controller for my softsynths - but I can't get it to work properly.

The most irritating problem is that I get stuck notes every time I slide my finger across the keyboard. Looking at MIDI monitor I can see a NRPN CC99 message is sent which I suppose is for Animoog to understand the legato ties (as was explained in another thread here) but this seems to screw it up when using any other VST as receiver of the MIDI messages. Or am I doing something wrong?

I've tried with Diva and the Arturia V-collection synths so far.

Anyone else experienced this?

I use a PC, Cubase 6.5, rtpMIDI, iPad 1.

[Amos]

you might try using MIDI-OX as a filter, to filter out the CC99 messages and then route MIDI to your softsynth... might need a virtual MIDI cable app (Hubi's, Maple, LoopBe) to pass MIDI from MIDI-OX to your sequencer. I'm not super-familiar with Cubase, but if it has its own MIDI filtering options you might be able to filter out the CC99 messages within Cubase, without needing an additional app like Midi-Ox.

In any case, the idea is to see if removing the NRPN data affects whether you get stuck notes or not. As far as my testing has indicated, all noteOn and NoteOff messages are output correctly even when sliding across the keys, so you shouldn't be getting any stuck notes due to actual missing data from Animoog... and no synth that implements NRPNs correctly should do anything in response to CC99 by itself... so, I'm not sure where exactly the trouble lies.

Future updates to Animoog will include more MIDI OUT configuration options, so you'll be able to tailor exactly what MIDI messages are output, for maximum compatibility with other gear. Of course if we find any genuine bugs we will work to eliminate them as quickly as possible...

I was using an Alesis IO Dock for MIDI output and getting a lot of stuck notes... then I updated the firmware on the IO Dock and the problem went away. I don't think that's relevant to rtpMIDI at all, except to say that my stuck note problem turned out to be the interface and not the app... so I wonder if there are any variables outside the app in your setup that could possibly be changed to obtain better results. The filtering I mentioned above is definitely the first thing I'd suggest to try.

[littlemachine]

Thanks for the reply. I've tried filtering out CC99 with Cubase's MIDI filter - still stuck notes.. MIDI monitor shows all note on/off messages seem to be getting through, as does PolyPress messages. And I've tried other MIDI controller apps with rtpMIDI (Thumbjam and Soundprism Pro) - and I don't get any stuck notes there.. So it seems not to be rtpMIDI or Cubase and I've encountered at least one other person who also get stuck notes with Animoog as MIDI controller. (But none who actually got it to work)

Also, today I tried recording the MIDI out from Animoog into Cubase, then playing it back into Animoog. But the polyphonic legato gets lost on the way. I can see CC99 being recorded into the MIDI file but when played back it sounds awful, no sliding between notes at all. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I can't find any documentation on how to set this up, if needed - and the manual hasn't been updated since november. I think this really needs a tutorial of some kind. If it's not actually a bug. Or for some reason it won't work with wireless MIDI (which is strange though cause everything else I've tried have worked fine with rtpMIDI).

You do get the impression that you will be able to use all of Animoogs fantastic expressive controls for your soft synths when you buy the MIDI pack, but for now, I can't get any use of it at all. Please look into this. And update the manual and maybe be a little clearer of what it can and can't do? Thanks!

[BrufordRules]

Yes, I got the same problem here. Even playing two notes in staccato I get stuck notes. It's not necessary to slide the finger.

I thought the problem could be my Wi-Fi connection but I tested it using the MidiMe App keyboard and it works great. No stuck notes at all.

I even tried to filter all MIDI messages but MIDI notes (CC#99 and Aftertouch) and it didn't work.

[klinik]

Same problem here: stuck notes everytime, the app is useless.
Windows 7 64bits using RTPmidi for MIDI.
Tried filtering NRPM MSB messages (cc99 and cc101 I think) in MIDIox, still the same problem.
Monitoring the input with MIDIox I see lot of note-off messages skipped, mostly when you use the AT and then quick release, and also almost everytime you slide your finger across the keyboard.

Please fix this...

[klinik]

OK, I`m trying filtering options inside the Ipad using MIDIbridge app:

config: animoog midi out to midibridge, midibridge out ove wifi to rtpmidi:
If I filter animoog MIDI out CCs inside Midibridge all seems to work fine, even polyAT, but of course, no mod wheel, pitch bend or CCs...
So something is causing the problem in the animoog side, and seems to be MIDI CC related. if CCs are not filtered by MIDibrisge I get the stuck notes even if no CCs are used!

[klinik]

Also I`m cheking that the lower part for the notes don´t send MIDI data (I mean touching about the first 1/4 of the total space for the note layout) even if the animoog note lights on. Seems to me like the "layer" or overlay for the midi out is not proper scaled. I`m used to play the animoog keyboard and this makes very difficult and also I`m loosing expression and dynamics...

[BrufordRules]

More comments about this problem can be found HERE.

[klinik]

No words on this!?
I spent 35$ for an app I (and more like me) can´t use... I bought it as a controller, and the midi out was not "free". Are you aware of this bug? did you found whats wrong? are a new working version coming?

[Amos]

All: I am working on this right now. Not to worry, Animoog MIDI output will continue to be developed and enhanced even after we've gotten the current issues sorted. The goal is definitely to translate as much of the Animoog playing experience to MIDI as is possible.

I will test the Poly Legato behavior in Cubase... I have tested it working successfully in both Logic and Ableton Live (although Live does not support poly-pressure and they have no plans to add such support at this time)...

further answers, and app updates, coming as soon as possible. Thank you!

Amos

[Amos]

Also I`m cheking that the lower part for the notes don´t send MIDI data (I mean touching about the first 1/4 of the total space for the note layout) even if the animoog note lights on.

MIDI data is sent. The velocity of notes depends on the y-axis; touching the bottom of the key outputs a noteOn with velocity at minimum, and touching the top of the key outputs a noteOn with velocity at maximum. Is it possible you are controlling a sound where minimum velocity is not audible?

I plan to add velocity scaling adjustment to MIDI OUT settings in a future Animoog update; this should help you to translate your playing dynamic from Animoog keyboard to external synth.

Cheers,

Amos

[klinik]

Also I`m cheking that the lower part for the notes don´t send MIDI data (I mean touching about the first 1/4 of the total space for the note layout) even if the animoog note lights on.

MIDI data is sent. The velocity of notes depends on the y-axis; touching the bottom of the key outputs a noteOn with velocity at minimum, and touching the top of the key outputs a noteOn with velocity at maximum. Is it possible you are controlling a sound where minimum velocity is not audible?

First, thanks for your support Amos, I`m glad you are shorting out the faults.

I know the Y axis send velocity, but I mean that the very bottom part is not sending either note on messagges or key velocity, at least while cheking in midiox. The minimum velocity apears to be at about 1/4 to 1/5 of the total surface for the note from the bottom. I`ll check again later today...

[klinik]

checked the velocity issue with midiox, I see the keyboard is sending MIDI velocity but the level remain constant at "1" for the first 1/4 of the travel for the key. It seems it follow the aftertouch response curve as well. Maybe the velocity curve should be linear in response instead of exponential?

The stuck notes issue I first noticed in cubase, but also in samplitude. I`ll check in my friend computer with live too but it seems not to be a DAW specific problem since MidiOX is showing the skipped note-offs directly from RTPmidi.
Thanks!

[littlemachine]

All: I am working on this right now. Not to worry, Animoog MIDI output will continue to be developed and enhanced even after we've gotten the current issues sorted. The goal is definitely to translate as much of the Animoog playing experience to MIDI as is possible.

I will test the Poly Legato behavior in Cubase... I have tested it working successfully in both Logic and Ableton Live (although Live does not support poly-pressure and they have no plans to add such support at this time)...

further answers, and app updates, coming as soon as possible. Thank you!

Amos

Hey Amos, thanks for looking into it. Really seems not to work as it should. In the meantime, when you say poly legato works successfully in Ableton and Logic, do you mean it actually works with external VST synths, and in that case which ones? Or do you mean the recording of a poly legato MIDI file and then playing it back to Animoog works?

I don't think it's a Cubase problem though, I've tested with stand-alone VSTs as well and still get stuck notes. More likely some issue with Animoog and wireless MIDI? (which should be posibble to solve since all other apps I have work fine with rtpMIDI)

[klinik]

HI!
Any news on this?? Animoog still useless here... is an update comming soon?

Thanks