Can you edit Minitaur's CC implementation?

Welcome to the Taurus, Minitaur and Sirin Forum
Post Reply
wrelzein
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:10 pm

Can you edit Minitaur's CC implementation?

Post by wrelzein » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:12 pm

I'm thinking about getting a Minituar and am wondering if you can edit any of its MIDI CC implementation? For example, can you edit the CC for the filter? I want to know because I'd like to use it with some keyboards where I can't map the knobs (like the Bass Station 2). I've checked out the manuals and am not thinking so, but I also realize the Minitaur has gone through a lot of changes over the years so things may be different. Much appreciated.
Top

User avatar
MC
Posts: 2907
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:20 pm
Location: Secluded Tranquil Country

Re: Can you edit Minitaur's CC implementation?

Post by MC » Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:10 pm

CCs cannot be changed as of firmware v2.x.

The Minitaur is hardly alone. Frankly the best way to address this is to use a proper MIDI controller whose controllers can be assigned.
Gear list: '04 Saturn Ion, John Deere X300 tractor, ganged set of seven reel mowers for 3 acres of lawn, herd of sheep for backup lawn mowers, two tiger cats for mouse population control Oh you meant MUSIC gear Oops I hit the 255 character limi

mfl
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:39 pm

Re: Can you edit Minitaur's CC implementation?

Post by mfl » Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:11 pm

CC implemenentation can be changed via SysEx.

https://api.moogmusic.com/sites/default ... mmands.zip
Set MIDI CC Map:
F0 04 08 18 [xx] [yy] 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 [mapping data] F7
future update will allow arbitrary mapping of parameters to MIDI CCs via SysEx.
Documentation will be forthcoming at a later time. ;)

I never could find the documentation about that SysEx but it's usable. Here's what I managed to sort out using the Editor plugged into C6 (no UI to modify the CC implementation but this SysEx is also used for CV mappings).

[xx] [yy] : unknown, leave as '00 00'
[mapping data] : 01 00 [CC num] [internal param num]

[CC num] : any number between 01 and 7F except 78, 79 and 7B which are reserved for CV mappings. 00 = no CC mapping

internal params num list:
01: aEG Attack
02: aEG Decay
03: aEG Sustain
04: aEG Release
05: fEG Attack
06: fEG Decay
07: fEG Sustain
08: fEG Release
09: VCO1 Level
0A: VCO2 Level
0B: VCO1 Waveform
0C: VCO2 Waveform
0D: VCO2 Frequency
0E: VCO2 Beat Frequency
0F: VCO Gate Reset
11: Filter Cutoff Frequency
12: Filter Resonance
13: Filter EG Amount
14: Filter Keyboard Amount
15: Filter Velocity Sensitivity
16: Volume Velocity Sensitivity
17: Trigger Mode
18: Release
19: Key Priority
1B: LFO Rate
1C: LFO clock divider
1D: LFO MIDI Sync
1E: LFO KB Trigger
22: Filter LFO Amount
23: Pitch LFO Amount
24: Bend Up Amount
25: Bend Down Amount
26: Glide
27: Legato Glide
28: Glide Rate
29: Glide Type
3A: VCA Output Level
3B: Ext Input Level
41: Mod Wheel
(missing the param numbers for Filter EG Delay, Filter EG Hold and Amp EG Hold)

more than 1 CC num can be mapped to a parameter and more than 1 parameters can be mapped to the same CC.
Etherwave+ > Eurorack > [CV cables] > Minitaur , Sirin < [USB cables] < Bidule < nanoKontrols

User avatar
Montfrooij
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:12 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Can you edit Minitaur's CC implementation?

Post by Montfrooij » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:58 pm

Thanks man!

mfl
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:39 pm

Re: Can you edit Minitaur's CC implementation?

Post by mfl » Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:42 pm

.. late comeback to my slightly out of nowhere SysEx post about MIDI CC mappings. Mostly to add too much context and minimal warnings (nothing that can't be fixed using that SysEx, the actual reason I posted here the above info).

So first, I agree with MC that remapping CCs directly on the Minitaur should be unnecessary. There are multiple software and hardware solutions for MIDI messages remapping. If I was to answer directly to the original post I should have said: no, CC implementation cannot be edited on the Minitaur but if you badly need to, there's an undocumented SysEx that can be used as a workaround.

-

In therm of context, the short story long version would start with me disconnecting by accident the CC mapping of the external volume of my Minitaur a few weeks before the first show I got the chance to play some 'bass theremin' alongside mostly stringed bass parts (only did 3 so far).

For some sections of long songs, the coolest thing I could do was holding an extreme low drone note (bellow 16 Hz). Simply changing preset and 'root note' from Bidule triggered from a nanoKey at my feet worked fine at band practices but I didn't trust myself to be able to maintain in tune for that long such low notes on stage and decided to simply 'disconnect' my antennas for those sections by changing the CV mappings (pitch antenna to filter cutoff and volume antenna usually to resonance).

Looking for a way to do so avoiding the editor (wasn't possible with both hands on the theremin), I found a link to the 2012 handy Minitaur sysex commands zip file. Using that info, I quickly managed to scramble a way to do so from Bilude using the same triggers I was using to change presets + root notes. From that point, everything worked perfectly every times I had to disconnect my default Theremin - Minitaur CV connections.. except that while learning how to do so, I seemed to have disconnected a CC mapping by accident.

Upon first realizing that, the best I managed to do trying to fix it was disconnecting 2 more parameters and since it wasn't a show stopper in any way, I left that problem on the side. I could still modify those 'broken' sound parameters using the panel knobs and save / recall them using presets. I simply could no longer change them via MIDI using my nanoKontrol (and the editor) or use those specific knobs of my Minitaur to control hypothetical future external software or hardware additions to my setup.

Fast forward a few months, my setup had improved to the point where considering adding a 2nd Minitaur was only a bit ridiculous but I really wanted to fix that first, so I resigned myself to contact Moog support for help.

Zendesk support reply was fast (less than 2 hours after my first email) and very polite (no mentions of my countless spelling and grammar errors) but after a few back and forth replies over 3 days, only result was confirming what I already knew (there was no problem with the potentiometers and re-installing the firmware or using the restore to factory default setting command doesn't fix CC mapping problems).

I felt I had failed to convince him to forward my problem to a firmware engineer (which I expected would have access to the documentation I needed) and was left with no other options than waiting for a random editor or firmware update that would make fixing CC mapping problems easier.

Fast forward more than a year later (almost 2 years after having first caused my problem), it was finally after a grand total of 7 disconnected CC mappings (5 on my Minitaur and 2 on my Sirin) that the solution that should have been obvious all along finally appeared to me in the form of an answer to an early side question I had almost forgotten. The 3 'strange' numbers that are used for CV mappings weren't completely arbitrary.

Those are reserved CC numbers and since mapping synth parameters to them should be impossible anyway, re-using those specific CC numbers for CV mappings was a cleaver and very simple way to extend the CC mapping SysEx command for an other purpose (CV mapping). To map CCs, I simply had to use the same byte I was using to map CVs. 10 minutes after realizing that, both my Minitaur and Sirin CC implementations had been restored and functioned exactly how they were when I first bought them.

A few days later and after additional testing, I created an account and hid here that information I wish I could have found 2 years earlier, in case someone else in the future (or past) ended with the same problem I had.
Etherwave+ > Eurorack > [CV cables] > Minitaur , Sirin < [USB cables] < Bidule < nanoKontrols

Post Reply