Minitaur phasing problem?

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hooshirn
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Minitaur phasing problem?

Post by hooshirn » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:32 pm

After the latest update my Minotaur developed a sever phasing beating problem between oscillators
It sounds like extreme pulse width modulation that follows keyboard tracking
That is to say the effect is slower in the lower register and faster higher up
The effect disappears when one are the other oscillator is turned down it does not matter which
Anyone experienced this? A solution are suggestion would be appreciated
Voyager XL, Minitaur,Theremen+, Fooger's, Midi delay and Midi murf, Freq box X 2, Ring mod, 101 Filter, Novation ultra station, ZR 76, MC808, Bent Casio's, 3 Speak and Spell's , M audio black box,Korg Monotribe, Ipad's with Animoog, Filtron on and on..

Purusha
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Re: Minitaur phasing problem?

Post by Purusha » Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:11 am

Haven't heard a difference myself.

Maybe you could post a sound sample?
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Amos
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Re: Minitaur phasing problem?

Post by Amos » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:07 am

try running a Note Calibration, that will probably do it.
connect USB from computer to Minitaur, open the standalone Minitaur Editor, go to the Setup page...
make sure Minitaur is selected as MIDI input & output device, then on the right side of the Setup page, click the NOTE CALIBRATION START button.
The calibration will tune all the notes and then exit automatically; there is no need to press the NOTE CALIBRATION STOP button. Calibration should take about 5 to 7 minutes.

Also, I assume you made sure the Osc2 Freq knob was centred?

-Amos

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hooshirn
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Re: Minitaur phasing problem?

Post by hooshirn » Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:17 pm

Thanks that did work
I still have a major problem though
The volume knob has always had a crackling pop problem
It has gotten very bad as of late I wonder if it's iffy condition could be causing some problems
Is this a standard pot are does it have some type of special feature in order to send midi data?
Where would I get a replacement? I am fairly good at soldering things
I would really like to use this unit more but every time you bump the volume knob there is a horrendous pop crackle it is more a side to side over a turning issue.
That could be sending spikes through the sensitive electronics
Any suggestion would be appreciated
Voyager XL, Minitaur,Theremen+, Fooger's, Midi delay and Midi murf, Freq box X 2, Ring mod, 101 Filter, Novation ultra station, ZR 76, MC808, Bent Casio's, 3 Speak and Spell's , M audio black box,Korg Monotribe, Ipad's with Animoog, Filtron on and on..

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_DemonDan_
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Re: Minitaur phasing problem?

Post by _DemonDan_ » Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:20 pm

hooshirn wrote: I would really like to use this unit more but every time you bump the volume knob there is a horrendous pop crackle it is more a side to side over a turning issue.
That really sounds like the Volume pot is no longer solidly connected to the circuit board.
_ :twisted: _DemonDan_ :twisted: _

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hooshirn
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Re: Minitaur phasing problem?

Post by hooshirn » Thu Nov 13, 2014 6:46 pm

That could be the problem maybe I will re-flow it a bit
Voyager XL, Minitaur,Theremen+, Fooger's, Midi delay and Midi murf, Freq box X 2, Ring mod, 101 Filter, Novation ultra station, ZR 76, MC808, Bent Casio's, 3 Speak and Spell's , M audio black box,Korg Monotribe, Ipad's with Animoog, Filtron on and on..

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tagirov
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Re: Minitaur phasing problem?

Post by tagirov » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:20 pm

hooshirn wrote:After the latest update my Minotaur developed a sever phasing beating problem between oscillators
It sounds like extreme pulse width modulation that follows keyboard tracking
That is to say the effect is slower in the lower register and faster higher up
The effect disappears when one are the other oscillator is turned down it does not matter which
Anyone experienced this? A solution are suggestion would be appreciated
I recently have got the same problem after updating to firmware 2.1.7 and calibration doesn't help.
Best regards, Ruslan Tagirov.

Toyz: MBPro+Live 9.x+LogicProX, Moog: LP StageII/Sub37/Minitaur, Clavia Nord: Stage2 SW73/ModularG2Engine, Roland: MC909, Korg: MS-20, R-3, Otomachines Bisquit/DER OTO, etc.

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bichuelo
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Re: Minitaur phasing problem?

Post by bichuelo » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:23 pm

tagirov wrote:
hooshirn wrote:After the latest update my Minotaur developed a sever phasing beating problem between oscillators
It sounds like extreme pulse width modulation that follows keyboard tracking
That is to say the effect is slower in the lower register and faster higher up
The effect disappears when one are the other oscillator is turned down it does not matter which
Anyone experienced this? A solution are suggestion would be appreciated
I recently have got the same problem after updating to firmware 2.1.7 and calibration doesn't help.
Yes I have noticed something strange in this regard as well. Can't check back until monday, but I am pretty sure it is this issue, running 2.1.7 after calibration too.
http://audiotecna.info
T-III, Voyager, VX-351, Slim Phatty, Model D, Sub Phatty, Subsequent 37, Minitaur, all moogerfoogers and minifoogers, EW+, Theremini, Model 15, Filtatron, Animoog, Model D App, iOS 11 Mother-32, DFAM, Werkstatt, Win7, High Sierra

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tagirov
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Re: Minitaur phasing problem?

Post by tagirov » Fri Jul 03, 2015 4:33 pm

I emailed Amos about this, but he doesn't reply yet.

This video demonstrates how it sounds and looks, note that spectrum is 'floating'. It shall not float when OSCs are in exact tune.
https://youtu.be/3qDM_QMzdGY

I tried OSC calibration several times, from the editor and via sysex on warmed-up synth after hour or two of working.
Also calibrated pots.
Doesn't help.

I believe that OSC2 is slightly out-of-tune to OSC1 and calibration doesn't tune it exactlty how it has to be done.
Maybe there is some issue with beat freq value which is actually not exactly "zero" even when set to 0 in the editor.
Best regards, Ruslan Tagirov.

Toyz: MBPro+Live 9.x+LogicProX, Moog: LP StageII/Sub37/Minitaur, Clavia Nord: Stage2 SW73/ModularG2Engine, Roland: MC909, Korg: MS-20, R-3, Otomachines Bisquit/DER OTO, etc.

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till
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Re: Minitaur phasing problem?

Post by till » Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:33 pm

tagirov wrote:...
I believe that OSC2 is slightly out-of-tune to OSC1 and calibration doesn't tune it exactlty how it has to be done.
Maybe there is some issue with beat freq value which is actually not exactly "zero" even when set to 0 in the editor.
Sorry, but all real analog signal path synth I ever owned (I and owned many) were NOT 100% spot on zero detune in the 12 o'Clock position of the detune knob. But some came close then others.
This is due to the way a potentiometer is not scaled perfectly to give a certain value at a certain position. Only the maximum and minimum are often quite well (but not always). And the knob calibration can't map all the available position of a knob to be spot on.
For best detune and beating setting, you need to use the best available audio measuring devices you got: your ears.
keep on turning these Moog knobs

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Prodigy * minimoog '79 * Voyager * MF102 * MF103 * MF104z * MP201 * Taurus 3 * Minitaur * Sub Phatty * MF105 * Minimoog 2017+ MUSE * One 16

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tagirov
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Re: Minitaur phasing problem?

Post by tagirov » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:55 pm

Correct, but the problem appeared only after updating to firmware 2.1.7
I didn't notice it before (I bought this Minitaur in July, 2012).
Best regards, Ruslan Tagirov.

Toyz: MBPro+Live 9.x+LogicProX, Moog: LP StageII/Sub37/Minitaur, Clavia Nord: Stage2 SW73/ModularG2Engine, Roland: MC909, Korg: MS-20, R-3, Otomachines Bisquit/DER OTO, etc.

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bichuelo
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Re: Minitaur phasing problem?

Post by bichuelo » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:42 am

tagirov wrote:Correct, but the problem appeared only after updating to firmware 2.1.7
I didn't notice it before (I bought this Minitaur in July, 2012).
I have tried to compare this issue with firmware 2.1.1 and I have found the phasing exists in 2.1.1. I must say I have been forced to recalibrate the pitch, since it goes nuts once you jump, both versions back and forth with each other.

Is the phasing there for you on every version? I am willing to try it on any other firmware version, so we are sure it does in order to tell Moog about it...
http://audiotecna.info
T-III, Voyager, VX-351, Slim Phatty, Model D, Sub Phatty, Subsequent 37, Minitaur, all moogerfoogers and minifoogers, EW+, Theremini, Model 15, Filtatron, Animoog, Model D App, iOS 11 Mother-32, DFAM, Werkstatt, Win7, High Sierra

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tagirov
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Re: Minitaur phasing problem?

Post by tagirov » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:27 am

bichuelo wrote:
tagirov wrote:Correct, but the problem appeared only after updating to firmware 2.1.7
I didn't notice it before (I bought this Minitaur in July, 2012).
I have tried to compare this issue with firmware 2.1.1 and I have found the phasing exists in 2.1.1. I must say I have been forced to recalibrate the pitch, since it goes nuts once you jump, both versions back and forth with each other.

Is the phasing there for you on every version? I am willing to try it on any other firmware version, so we are sure it does in order to tell Moog about it...
I'm gonna try downgrading the firmware and will check it, but only next week.
Best regards, Ruslan Tagirov.

Toyz: MBPro+Live 9.x+LogicProX, Moog: LP StageII/Sub37/Minitaur, Clavia Nord: Stage2 SW73/ModularG2Engine, Roland: MC909, Korg: MS-20, R-3, Otomachines Bisquit/DER OTO, etc.

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