Taurus II from Rogue?

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Tricky old dog
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Taurus II from Rogue?

Post by Tricky old dog » Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:53 pm

Guys I'm new to this stuff(I'm actually a bassist),
So take it easy on me in case this question seems
A bit stupid.
So, my drummer had a Rogue synth laying around
Since the eighties & I brought it home recently.
I read reviews & discovered that it has the same
"Synth" as the Taurus II.
So naturally, my thought was get some pedals to trigger
This thing.
Well, it was a simple idea, finding the pedals( in working
Condition) is quite a different matter.
So My question is, can I use some other pedals for the job?
If so, could you guys offer a solution.
I'm playing in a rock trio & this little jewel
Will definitely open up(fatten up) a lot of sonic
possibilities .
Thanks for reading & offering you input.
Cliff

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Bendigeidfran
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Re: Taurus II from Rogue?

Post by Bendigeidfran » Sun May 11, 2014 4:58 am

Cliff,

I'm surprised with all these Moog geniuses walking around that no one could have come up with a plausible answer for you. I, however, am not a genius. But I am working an overnight shift with not a lot to do other than listen to Pink Floyd, watch security screens, some network monitoring stuff and surf the web.

So I did some surfing on your behalf... The short answer to your question appears to be, unfortunately, "No, there is no easy way to do it."

Here's why...most of the ease in the current state of "plug-n-play" instruments comes from MIDI, which I am certain you must have heard of. Before the wide acceptance of MIDI electronic instruments really did not play nice together. Your problem begins with how "young" MIDI is in respect to how old your Rogue is. The best info I can find places the manufacturing dates of the Rogue in 1981, maybe into very early 1982. While it was being developed at that time, MIDI really didn't appear commercially until 83-84.

Now in the category of "Slightly less easy but not impossible" I found this copy of an owners manual: http://synthark.com/resource/moog/Rogue ... Manual.pdf

On page 7 it mentions a keyboard In/Out where the unit can be controlled by "something else" via CV (Control Voltage). Add that to the availability of CV-to-MIDI converters via a simple Google search (http://www.synthzone.com/cv.htm, among others...) you may just be able to make it work.

There are several MIDI pedal boards out there, Roland has one, it's in the $900 range. I just picked up a Minitaur and I am triggering it with a Keith MacMillen 12-step: http://www.keithmcmillen.com/12step/tour

Good Luck,

B

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MC
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Re: Taurus II from Rogue?

Post by MC » Sun May 11, 2014 10:46 pm

Moog used to make a Taurus II "controller" which is the Taurus II pedalboard without synth brain and it had CV/trig outputs only. That's about the only option to control the Rogue from footpedals.
Gear list: '04 Saturn Ion, John Deere X300 tractor, ganged set of seven reel mowers for 3 acres of lawn, herd of sheep for backup lawn mowers, two tiger cats for mouse population control Oh you meant MUSIC gear Oops I hit the 255 character limi

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Bendigeidfran
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Re: Taurus II from Rogue?

Post by Bendigeidfran » Mon May 12, 2014 10:01 am

Ooo, good to know MC. I had never heard of/seen that..

I'll have to keep my eyes open for one of those for my Minitaur!

Cheers,

Bill

megavoice
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Re: Taurus II from Rogue?

Post by megavoice » Mon May 12, 2014 3:01 pm

Yes, MC is right, but these pedal controllers seem to be VERY rare. I recently have seen one a few months ago in the San Francisco are on ebay for sale and I reflected about bidding but at the end I didn't do.
I asked my tech already about this issue and he said that's some work to make a modern pedal board cv/trig suitable.
Otherwise you have to convert the Rogue to MIDI. But I don't kow how or IF this is possible........
"Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fu** the prom queen." —Sean Connery to Nicholas Cage in "The Rock" (1996)
I've never seen any real prom queen here in my country, but if we had some they'd
**** with everyone.

megavoice
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Re: Taurus II from Rogue?

Post by megavoice » Fri May 16, 2014 2:38 pm

Hi Cliff,

Talked to my tech yesterday and he has told me there's a Midi setup spooking aronund in the web for the Prodigy.
He added that an upgrading for the Rogue/T2 wouldn't differ very much from, or be mostly the same.
It's just a small PCB and the work for upgrading will be about one hour. There's also must be drilled a hole into for the MIDI output.
But unfortunately I can't tell you where this PCB can be buyed. My tech said he'll open up his eyes for in the next time.

For me it had been far more of interrest to get a keyboard I can steer my T2 unit with, but I abandoned as I don't like to take my vintage stuff on stage.
If I'd need pedals for our GENESIS, SAGA etc. vintage stuff, I'd buy now a Minitaur and a FATAR 1 1/2 octave MIDI pedal board.
"Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and fu** the prom queen." —Sean Connery to Nicholas Cage in "The Rock" (1996)
I've never seen any real prom queen here in my country, but if we had some they'd
**** with everyone.

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a2dconverter
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Re: Taurus II from Rogue?

Post by a2dconverter » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:18 am

Hi Cliff,

Here is the info from a post that I made a few years ago... I hope it helps...

I am very well acquainted with all of the Taurus Models (T1, T2, T3) and the Rogue which is closely associated with the T2.

You 'can' interface the Rogue and the T2 Pedalboard to essentially make a T2...

If you pull up the Rogue schematic you will see the Keyboard circuitry and how it interfaces with the Glide and trigger Circuits. The Rogue is where all of the mods are made; if you do it right, the only modification will be a punched hole for a 5-Pin DIN Jack in the Rogue chassis. Since the Rogue has 32 notes and the T2 has 18 notes, because of scale differences, you won't be able to use both the Rogue keyboard and the T2 pedalboard at the same time without tuning and scale problems.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

On the Rogue keyboard there are two contacts per key. The keyboard is an arrangement of 100 Ohm resistors used to divide up the output of the Keyboard Scale Trim circuit into discrete voltages. A different voltage for each note corresponds to 1V/OCT and those voltages are switched by one of the keyboard contacts as each key is pressed. The other keyboard contact switches a common +12 VDC to the trigger circuit as each key is pressed.

Here are the outputs to/from the keyboard on Connector P1
PIN 1 = RED WIRE = +12 VDC Feed to Keyboard Trigger Contacts
PIN 2 = BLUE WIRE = CV BUSS Bar to Glide Circuit - 1V/OCT
PIN 3 = VIOLET WIRE = Keyboard Voltage Divider Common (Lo C)
PIN 4 = ORANGE WIRE = Keyboard Voltage Divider Feed (Hi F)
PIN 5 = GRAY WIRE = TRIGGER BUSS Bar to Trigger Circuit
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

There are two ways that you can utilize your T2 pedalboard to trigger your Rogue...

NON-MIDI OPTION (Modifies your Rogue for trigger IN & CV IN available on a 5-pin DIN connected to a standard un-modified T2 Pedalboard)

This Option requires you to disconnect the Rogue Keyboard and create a new 5-wire jumper cable from the Rogue PCB to a 5-Pin DIN jack that you will have to install on your Rogue by using a 5/8" steel chassis punch.

Before any modifications, perform the Factory alignment on the Rogue.

The 5-pin DIN will allow you to interface the Rogue to the T2 Pedal board via a 5 PIN DIN Cable (You need all 5 wires in the cable). The Rogue keyboard has a small white 5-pin plastic connector that can easily be unplugged from the PCB to disconnect the keyboard. Find a similar connector with the same pin spacing and wire it left to right as follows,(Red,Blue,Violet,Orange,Gray), to the 5-PIN DIN connector as follows...

Looking at the back of the connector in the Rogue and Starting at 9:00 and going CW to 3:00 (The numbering skips pins and starts renumbering - 1,4,2,5,3). Here is the Pinout of the 5-PIN DIN and coresponding wire colors.

5-PIN DIN Connector for T2 Pedals
PIN 1 = RED WIRE = +12 VDC Feed to Keyboard Trigger Contacts
PIN 4 = GRAY WIRE = TRIGGER BUSS Bar to Trigger Circuit
PIN 2 = ORANGE WIRE = Keyboard Voltage Divider Feed (Hi F)
PIN 5 = BLUE WIRE = CV BUSS Bar to Glide Circuit - 1V/OCT
PIN 3 = VIOLET WIRE = Keyboard Voltage Divider Common (Lo C)

The T2 pedalboard is an exact copy of the Rogue keyboard except that it has less contacts. Both keyboards switch CV and Trigger voltages to the Mainboard circuitry. Since the Rogue has 32 notes, and the T2 has only 18 notes, you will have to drop some voltage before you get to the T2 keyboard. This can most easily be attained by installing an inline 5.1K resistor on the Orange wire.

Once you've made these mods, connect the 5-Pin (all 5 wire thru) DIN cable between the Rogue and the T2 keyboard and you may have to recheck the alignment in the Rogue and make adjustments to the keyboard scale as required to attain proper note scaling with the new T2 pedalboard.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

MIDI OPTION (mod T2 Pedalboard for MIDI out and mod Rogue for MIDI IN)

This option still requires you to punch a 5/8" hole in the Rogue chassis for the 5 Pin DIN connector. In the end you will have a Rogue with MIDI IN and a T2 pedalboard with MIDI OUT.

Before any modifications, perform the Factory alignment on the Rogue.

Purchase a MidiJack from http://www.synhouse.com for intallation inside the Rogue. The MidiJack is a MIDI to CV/ Trigger converter that will give you a MIDI IN on the ROGUE and provide 1V/OCT CV and Trigger to the Rogue Mainboard. The Installation notes are on the Synhouse website.

Here is my Rogue modified with a Synhouse MIDIJACK for MIDI IN...

Image

Image


More pics here of my Rogue mods...

http://stagecue.com/rogue.html

________________________________________
Here is a current alternate for the MidiJack Midi to CV/Trigger...the Midi-Implant by Roman Sowa...

http://www.midi-hardware.com/index.php?section=prod_info&product=MIDIMPLANT

.....cool

This mod will allow you to trigger the Rogue with any bass pedals with MIDI out like the Roland PK-5a or the Keith McMillen 12 Step pedals previously mentioned by Bendigeidfran. This means that you do not have to track down a set of T2 pedals.
________________________________________

If you have modded your Rogue for MIDI IN, now, you need to modify your T2 pedalboard with a MIDI OUT. This is relatively easy if you purchase a pre-built Switch-to-MIDI converter from j-omega.

http://www.j-omega.co.uk

The j-omega PTM-1 Switch-to-MIDI converter, once mounted and connected in parallel with the T2 keyboard contacts, will provide MIDI OUT for each note as you press on the pedalboard. You will have to jumper the 3 wires from the j-omega MIDI OUT to the existing 5-Pin DIN connector on the T2.
________________________________________________________________
A current Alternate for the j-omega PTM-1 is the Highly Liquid MIDI CPU

http://highlyliquid.com/midi-controllers/midi-cpu
________________________________________________________________

After the modifications to the Rogue and T2 pedalboard, connect the T2 Pedalboard to the Rogue using a standard MIDI cable,(not all five wires are required), and check the note scaling. Adjust the Rogue tuning to get everything properly tuned.

To get really low notes like the Taurus 2 from the Rogue, you may have to turn the Pitch wheel all the way down and fine-tune with the Tune Control.

With the addition of MIDI jacks on both devices, you can use the T2 pedalboard to trigger other MIDI instruments and you can trigger the Rogue from external keyboards. Best of Both Worlds.

Have fun...it's a lot of work and you will approach the sound of the T1 or T3!

seeya

Joe
_____________________________________
Moog Taurus I #1708 (1972)
http://stagecue.com/t1.html

Moog Taurus I (1981) Custom Table-Top x MIDI IN
http://stagecue.com/t3.html

Moog Rogue #2040 (1981) x MIDI IN x internal PS
http://stagecue.com/rogue.html

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_DemonDan_
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Re: Taurus II from Rogue?

Post by _DemonDan_ » Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:31 pm

Hi Cliff,

After all these great suggestions, it might be a bit of heresy to suggest this but...

Sell the Rogue on eBay to someone who wants to collect it.

Then use the money to buy a used Minitaur ($300+) and something to trigger it via MIDI.

The Minitaur's components will be relatively new and will work for many years without needing work.

You'll have so much more pitch stability and many dozens of MIDI control possibilities.

And... it will be so much easier to set up and gig with.
_ :twisted: _DemonDan_ :twisted: _

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_DemonDan_
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Re: Taurus II from Rogue?

Post by _DemonDan_ » Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:35 pm

Bendigeidfran wrote:I am working an overnight shift with not a lot to do other than listen to Pink Floyd, watch security screens, some network monitoring stuff and surf the web.

Heaven!
(Maybe just add a compact synth/sequence rig.)
_ :twisted: _DemonDan_ :twisted: _

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