Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here please

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bichuelo
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by bichuelo » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:59 am

Amos wrote:Tagirov: Your minitaur didn't play every second note (using firmware v2.025) because it was in "poly chain" mode. ;) It thinks it was voice 1 of 2, apparently. "Factory Restore" (restores globals to default) should fix this:
http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/mi ... re_Cmd.syx


Which are the settings being reset by this command?
http://audiotecna.info
T-III, Voyager, VX-351, Slim Phatty, Model D, Sub Phatty, Subsequent 37, Minitaur, all moogerfoogers and minifoogers, EW+, Theremini, Model 15, Filtatron, Animoog, Model D App, iOS 11 Mother-32, DFAM, Werkstatt, Win7, High Sierra

robml
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by robml » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:44 am

cousinofdeath wrote:
ALB wrote: except the hardware "save" way that was better before, with no locating. waiting the editor for that )


I agree with this WHOLE HEARTEDLY
The locating feature is nice, but i feel it's too complicated a sequence to be of any real use. I prefer the old manner.


agreed

Amos
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by Amos » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:58 am

So, about saving presets directly from the hardware...

does anyone care whether they can save a current tweaked sound to a different location?
I can easily remove that feature if it's not important.

Originally, the hardware was only supposed to do what was printed on the panel... everything else was supposed to require the editor. So, saving a preset to some other location in memory could be a function which requires the editor.

If I am not mistaken, there is very little change to the process if what you are doing is saving changes to a sound without changing preset location... that is, making a change to a sound and then saving it in-place.

Before, you pressed GLIDE + RELEASE for 1 second and it saved, correct?
Now, you press GLIDE + RELEASE for half a second, then tap RELEASE again to confirm. Same result. Is this really too much more complicated? (holding GLIDE the whole time, long press then short press on RELEASE). I am not trying to defend the new mode, I am happy to get rid of it or try to improve it... just let me know what might be better.

an3
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by an3 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:20 pm

stil happening after updating resetting n all pitch drops osc. fallout

:(

Amos
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by Amos » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:43 pm

an3 wrote:stil happening after updating resetting n all pitch drops osc. fallout

:(


Hi, can you try using more words? Or, post in your native language and I will use Google Translate. I want to help but I don't understand your posts.

an3
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by an3 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:18 pm

hee amos: im only keeping them short because most of it is already mentionned before & i have little time to write mails about failing hardware n all.

order:
1. update to latest os /
2. Pitch - CV reset
3. Note Cal n10 - n72

Then when playing (on midi as well as CV)
1. one of the vco's still out of tune / octave or 2 lower
2. pitchdroP: from where the last octave repeats itself (c3) there are weird pitch (octave) drops, the right tone but C2 or lower

after downgrading to 2.21 stable except a bit out of tune scaling wise (ON CV)

i did notice very strange structure of the Note Cal n10 - n72 (iow how the whole calib. proces sounds! when it is happening) after upgrading to 2.26 as opposed to the sound of the same process after downgrading to 2..21

regards

robml
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by robml » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:18 pm

Amos wrote:So, about saving presets directly from the hardware...

does anyone care whether they can save a current tweaked sound to a different location?
I can easily remove that feature if it's not important.

Originally, the hardware was only supposed to do what was printed on the panel... everything else was supposed to require the editor. So, saving a preset to some other location in memory could be a function which requires the editor.

If I am not mistaken, there is very little change to the process if what you are doing is saving changes to a sound without changing preset location... that is, making a change to a sound and then saving it in-place.

Before, you pressed GLIDE + RELEASE for 1 second and it saved, correct?
Now, you press GLIDE + RELEASE for half a second, then tap RELEASE again to confirm. Same result. Is this really too much more complicated? (holding GLIDE the whole time, long press then short press on RELEASE). I am not trying to defend the new mode, I am happy to get rid of it or try to improve it... just let me know what might be better.


heres my 2c.

it's got to be really simple for people to remember it.

although its not that complicated, people have to remember hundreds of these little processes for hundreds of devices. if it's not intuitive and really simple it will be forgotten. as soon as you add a timing element the user has to remember you can guarantee it will be forgotten. also, timing commands are intimidating and very unfriendly.

changing the original way of saving a preset makes people relearn something. changing it to "half a complicated process" makes it even harder.

here is my suggestion for saving in place:
HOLD GLIDE, THEN HOLD RELESE UNTIL BOTH LIGHTS FLASH TWICE (QUICKLY). The lights flash to give user acknowledgement of saving after 1 SECOND, but the user doesn't have to remember the timing.

here is my suggestion for saving to another location:
1. initiate the save
HOLD GLIDE, THEN PRESS RELEASE TWICE, BOTH LIGHTS BEGIN TO FLASH AT A MEDIUM PACE to signify the user is now in a saving mode where they must choose a location for the new preset.

2. choose a location
the user uses the OSC buttons to cycle through presets until one to be overwritten has been found

3a. saving the preset
Once the user has found one to overwrite, then HOLD GLIDE AND THEN PRESS RELEASE TWICE to save over that preset and the ligths will FLASH TWICE (QUICKLY) give user acknowledgement of saving.

3b. cancelling the save
IF the user PRESSES GLIDE ONCE without PRESSING RELEASE TWICE, the the saving is cancelled and the sound GOES BACK TO it's state before saving was initiated.


this differentiates the commands, and people can choose to only remember one, but they are a similar action so remembering both wouldn't be too hard.

personally i think saving in location is something that should be done in the editor. i would guess there are a small number of people that want that feature. making everyone remember the complicated process or half a complicated process is not preferable.

cheers

Amos
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by Amos » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:26 pm

that sounds good. I would have probably done something very similar already except that long ago I mapped "GLIDE + double-press RELEASE" to another function, namely the outputting of all parameter values as MIDI CCs. If I get rid of that functionality or map it differently, then we can use GLIDE + double-press RELEASE to begin the "save in a new location" routine, and then all will be relatively well.

robml
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by robml » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:38 am

Amos wrote:that sounds good. I would have probably done something very similar already except that long ago I mapped "GLIDE + double-press RELEASE" to another function, namely the outputting of all parameter values as MIDI CCs. If I get rid of that functionality or map it differently, then we can use GLIDE + double-press RELEASE to begin the "save in a new location" routine, and then all will be relatively well.


awesome.

i wouldnt get rid of the send all cc's functionality. maybe just ditch the ability to call it from the front panel. maybe change it to the same as the sub phatty, call and response via midi.

cheers

whiterabbit
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by whiterabbit » Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:33 am

I actually sold my Minitaur about 4 months ago as It was such a headache.

Presets not working through Ableton 9.

No ever had an issue with my Slim Phatty, Tetra etc

If the Presets become more user friendly with Ableton then I might repurchase as it is a great sounding synth.

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tagirov
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by tagirov » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:47 pm

Amos wrote:So, about saving presets directly from the hardware...

does anyone care whether they can save a current tweaked sound to a different location?
I can easily remove that feature if it's not important.

Originally, the hardware was only supposed to do what was printed on the panel... everything else was supposed to require the editor. So, saving a preset to some other location in memory could be a function which requires the editor.

If I am not mistaken, there is very little change to the process if what you are doing is saving changes to a sound without changing preset location... that is, making a change to a sound and then saving it in-place.

Before, you pressed GLIDE + RELEASE for 1 second and it saved, correct?
Now, you press GLIDE + RELEASE for half a second, then tap RELEASE again to confirm. Same result. Is this really too much more complicated? (holding GLIDE the whole time, long press then short press on RELEASE). I am not trying to defend the new mode, I am happy to get rid of it or try to improve it... just let me know what might be better.


I think that 'Save preset to different location...' functionality is almost useless.
It's enough for Minitaur to have the ability to tweak and save the current active preset.
And maybe simpler combination, like press and hold GLIDE, than while holding GLIDE press and hold RELEASE and wait for them to flash twice, exactly as described by robml.

And also I think it's good to leave unchanged the 'Send current CC's' button combination.
Best regards, Ruslan Tagirov.

Toyz: MBPro+Live 9.x+LogicProX, Moog: LP StageII/Sub37/Minitaur, Clavia Nord: Stage2 SW73/ModularG2Engine, Roland: MC909, Korg: MS-20, R-3, Otomachines Bisquit/DER OTO, etc.

cousinofdeath
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by cousinofdeath » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:15 pm

I like the dump CCs command, it's quite useful, hopefully we don't lose that functionality.

I don't have a huge issue with the way saving is handled now...I just don't ever have the need to save a preset to a different location, w/no readout of what preset I'm on I just don't find that useful. I don't ever use the front panel to change presets because I have no-idea-where-I'm-at most of the time. I use a sequencer for patch changes. So the current way of saving adds an additional step. I can live with that...but it seems like half the time I get the annoying "Glide turns on when saving" issue, wherein I save a preset with GLIDE OFF and when I load it up, GLIDE is always ON. It may be user error, but it happens enough for me to prefer the old way of overwriting a preset.

What bums me out the most about the synth is how it seems to randomly switch between SNAP/PASS THRU/RELATIVE knob modes...and the global setting, at least on my synth is SNAP, and no matter what I do I can't change it to be RELATIVE or PASS THRU on power up. It kills me during live performance, as I'll have a jam going, and then if I slightly nudge the EG amount knob...my bass disappears etc.
Minitaur (sequenced via MIDI with an MPC1000 and USB w/ mac running OSX 10.10)
MF-101 Lo-Pass Filter
MF-103 Phaser

Amos
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by Amos » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:43 pm

OK, thanks for all the feedback.

next build will have good old reliable tuning; I've sorted that out today.
I'm working on cleaning up and simplifying all the preset-save actions based on the discussions of yesterday and today.

More tomorrow,

Amos

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misterpete
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by misterpete » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:33 am

I think Rob made a good point if we can't remember it we won't use it.
my 2¢ ` The idea of saving to another location just in hardware without the Visual help of an Editor seems like a real stretch to me because there's no way of _really_ knowing what preset you are saving over, except clicking and counting.<shrug>
Would be nice to just save a preset over itself without the editor, though ~ if that's available now I really should memorize it - can anybody tell me what's the command for it? :D

Amos wrote:OK, thanks for all the feedback.

next build will have good old reliable tuning; I've sorted that out today.
I'm working on cleaning up and simplifying all the preset-save actions based on the discussions of yesterday and today.

More tomorrow,

Amos
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bichuelo
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by bichuelo » Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:19 pm

till wrote:Amos,

when using the new 2.0.26 version here, I get the same problem as in 2.0.25:

The octave repeating is working on VCO 2 perfect,
but the VCO 1 is playing some low C note on the repeating octave notes A, A#, B, C.

Of cause I did the calibration before trying this. under 2.0.25 and 2.0.26. And the FREQ is set to 12 o'Clock for no detune.

This repeating octave is a very musical way to deal with the top not range.


I have found the same issue, tried two units actually so it is definitely there.
http://audiotecna.info
T-III, Voyager, VX-351, Slim Phatty, Model D, Sub Phatty, Subsequent 37, Minitaur, all moogerfoogers and minifoogers, EW+, Theremini, Model 15, Filtatron, Animoog, Model D App, iOS 11 Mother-32, DFAM, Werkstatt, Win7, High Sierra

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