Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here please

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robml
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by robml » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:46 pm

ALB wrote:
Amos wrote:Separate question, should I still change the behavior so that Glide only actually changes state when you release the button, to avoid the toggling back-and-forth that it does now?


heres my 2c

the glide button light should always be ON when the user is pressing the glide button, but the glide parameter should not change until after the finger is released.

when the user takes his/her finger off the button, the glide button light changes to glides parameter state.

scenario 1.
if the glide was OFF and the user presses the glide button, the glide light comes ON, if the user then invokes a secondary function using the glide button, the glide button reflects the glide parameter (OFF) when the user releases his/her finger.

scenario 2.
the glide parameter is OFF. the use pressed glide button, the glide button light turns ON, the glide parameter doesnt change until after the button is released.

scenario 3.
the glide parameter is ON. the user presses the glide button, the glide light stays ON. the glide light turns OFF when the finger is released.

now ideally all lights should change immediately on PRESS DOWN. but because of the secondary features, it may be best to implement the LIGHT ON for BUTTON DOWN / PARAMETER CHANGE on BUTTON RELEASE for all buttons.

cheers

cousinofdeath
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by cousinofdeath » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:20 pm

robml wrote:now ideally all lights should change immediately on PRESS DOWN. but because of the secondary features, it may be best to implement the LIGHT ON for BUTTON DOWN / PARAMETER CHANGE on BUTTON RELEASE for all buttons.


Yes, but not on OSC 1 or OSC 2 waveform selectors! some fun effects can be had by toggling these in realtime. im not a fan of parameter change on button release for functions that are potentially useful in a live musical context. Timing releases to a beat is not nearly as easy.
Minitaur (sequenced via MIDI with an MPC1000 and USB w/ mac running OSX 10.10)
MF-101 Lo-Pass Filter
MF-103 Phaser

robml
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by robml » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:44 am

cousinofdeath wrote:
robml wrote:now ideally all lights should change immediately on PRESS DOWN. but because of the secondary features, it may be best to implement the LIGHT ON for BUTTON DOWN / PARAMETER CHANGE on BUTTON RELEASE for all buttons.


Yes, but not on OSC 1 or OSC 2 waveform selectors! some fun effects can be had by toggling these in realtime. im not a fan of parameter change on button release for functions that are potentially useful in a live musical context. Timing releases to a beat is not nearly as easy.


you cant have buttons operate differently. it's just really bad design to do that. you cant have some buttons change parameters on BUTTON DOWN, and have some buttons change parameters on BUTTON RELEASE. you need to do either one or the other. as the buttons have secondary features it would make sense for them all to change parameters on BUTTON RELEASE.

you would still be able to toggle waveform with a single press+release as you did before.

cheers

cousinofdeath
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by cousinofdeath » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:53 pm

robml wrote:you cant have buttons operate differently. it's just really bad design to do that.


that's just smug.

agree to disagree, as it makes absolutely no difference to me. having buttons change state on release at all is "just really bad design" in my opinion. but i guess we should all bow down to the universal law of "good design" ehh? It knows best right...

robml wrote:you would still be able to toggle waveform with a single press+release as you did before.


uh yes you would...but now i can toggle waveform with a single press...not a single press+release. Will I be able to toggle waveform with a single press? I think not. So no, i'd lose functionality that is useful to me in a musical context. I thought that's what this thing is no? A MUSICAL instrument? to be used by actual musicians? Or is it a just a fancy toy with "outstanding design" to show off to friends?

cheers
Minitaur (sequenced via MIDI with an MPC1000 and USB w/ mac running OSX 10.10)
MF-101 Lo-Pass Filter
MF-103 Phaser

Amos
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by Amos » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:05 pm

I am a proponent that all buttons with musical results should do their thing on press, not on release.
That's why the Minitaur buttons have their current behaviour.

I am pretty sure that the GLIDE state will really save the way you want it to now; you just have to be a bit aware of how it works. The GLIDE button toggles on press, but if you then continue on to any of the "GLIDE + another button" meta-functions, the Glide state toggles back to its previous state, meaning no change from how it was before you pressed it. If you keep this in mind I think it works as-is.

Here's a new Minitaur firmware update... this one does the "repeat the top octave" thing.
http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/mi ... 2_0_25.syx

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misterpete
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by misterpete » Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:41 pm

Excellent thanks Amos ~ will load this directly! Eager to try out that 'top octave' solution :D

I agree with you about the buttons ~ perhaps another thing to consider for folks following this discussion is that many of us rarely use the Minitaur's front panel alone ~ unless a sequencer is driving it ~ in my case, quite often it's hooked up to a Voyager or SubPhatty via MIDI as a controller keyboard ~ so I'll be using Voyager/Phatty knobs and buttons and mostly ignoring or at best working them in tandem with the ones on the face of the MInitaur itself ~ the Voyager is really particularly well paired (to both Tauri) not sure how other midi controllers behave doing the same task.

Amos wrote:I am a proponent that all buttons with musical results should do their thing on press, not on release.
That's why the Minitaur buttons have their current behaviour.

I am pretty sure that the GLIDE state will really save the way you want it to now; you just have to be a bit aware of how it works. The GLIDE button toggles on press, but if you then continue on to any of the "GLIDE + another button" meta-functions, the Glide state toggles back to its previous state, meaning no change from how it was before you pressed it. If you keep this in mind I think it works as-is.

Here's a new Minitaur firmware update... this one does the "repeat the top octave" thing.
http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/mi ... 2_0_25.syx
Please Call Me, PETE
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bombiggy
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by bombiggy » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:22 pm

Is the file size correct for v 2.0.25? It's showing to be 7 bytes in the SysEx librarian. Thought I'd ask before updating.

alonglost
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by alonglost » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:36 pm

Anyone have any luck installing v 2.0.25? Couldn't get mine out of boot loader mode. Had to revert to v 2.0.23. Might be something on my end, but I thought I'd check here first.

robml
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by robml » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:10 am

cousinofdeath wrote:
robml wrote:you cant have buttons operate differently. it's just really bad design to do that.


that's just smug.


not smug. inconsistent. inconsistency leads to confusion. confusion leads to reading the manual. and that sucks.

when i studied user design, we learnt everyone has their own way they think things should work, but that there is always a common denominator that will work for the majority. and finding that common denominator is usually always found by following design rules. so if you personally think some buttons should work one way, and other buttons should work another way, that may work great for you, but not for everybody. calling it smug is a bit silly really.

i agree that ON RELEASE is not great (as i said in my original post). but consistency is really important. devices that are inconsistent are really awful to use. its a really simple rule that all good design follows.

imo using buttons for secondary features (especially when they are not marked) on the hardware is bad design too. and once you start going down the rabbit hole its hard to tie off those new loose ends. imo turning glide on, then back off again is messy- thats just my opinion, but honestly neither options available at this point are pretty.

cheers

an3
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by an3 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:24 am

no the firmware is not right. needs to be around 370kb, so wait untill amos replies & replaces:)

Amos
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by Amos » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:03 am

replaced the file. Try again, same link. Sorry about that! Not sure what happened....

(link again is http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/mi ... 2_0_25.syx)

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misterpete
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by misterpete » Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:50 pm

OK loaded v2_0_25 with FW version verified in released Editor
Top octave repeat solution is working here ~ thanx ! 8)

Amos wrote:replaced the file. Try again, same link. Sorry about that! Not sure what happened....

(link again is http://www.moogconnect.net/downloads/mi ... 2_0_25.syx)
Please Call Me, PETE
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bombiggy
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by bombiggy » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:20 am

Repeat top octave is a big PLUS! :wink:

neeco
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by neeco » Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:41 am

Fw v2_0_25: the first oscillator is 7 semitones down :(

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christopherrowand
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Re: Minitaur firmware update soon - your requests here pleas

Post by christopherrowand » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:06 pm

neeco wrote:Fw v2_0_25: the first oscillator is 7 semitones down :(



This happened for my update too. Pity.. It's all buggered up, So I went back to the previous version.

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