Moog Music Forum

Ok, I was looking around on Parts Express, as I do when I get bored, and was SHOCKED to see this http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... r=248-4132 So, I remember people telling me that a 2x15 speaker was perfect for the Taurus 3. I agreed. Until now. This thing must kick some serious ass! Imagine TWO of them!

My system is not the best but fits my needs: active 18" sub bass and two 2 way monitor boxes. The crossover frequency and the volumes have set to the right spots.

Till, that is an adequate setup...for 99% of the average person's needs. I am not most people. I am very old fashioned, and believe that bigger is better when it comes to speakers.

Are you not worried about un-nessecary distortion with that many drivers and quad porting? Good arguments for a 2-way system just for the sake of avoiding X-Over distortion...

Still.. not many speakers go below 25-30Hz... so its nice to know you'll get the full range of frequencies from your Taurus and the price is right.. Plus it'd have some pretty killer stage presence

It's actually crossed over like a four way system. The tweeters are wired together for power handling. Absolutely this thing has killer stage presence! For the price, you could technically have an amp and one speaker for each band member.

Sounds nice, line level and instrument level inputs? Even a small mixer ontop could be good for mixing it with another monosynth... So long as you can listen to the system before you part with your cash (surprisingly hard to find stock on the shelves to do that with in Australia!)

I see you're a fellow T3 owner, dont suppose you know what im doing wrong with mine to get the (user) issue i describe http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16086 here? I upgraded my Frimware to 2.0.2 from 1.11 the other day... i hope the two arent linked.

psynthetic wrote:Sounds nice, line level and instrument level inputs? Even a small mixer ontop could be good for mixing it with another monosynth... So long as you can listen to the system before you part with your cash (surprisingly hard to find stock on the shelves to do that with in Australia!)

I see you're a fellow T3 owner, dont suppose you know what im doing wrong with mine to get the (user) issue i describe http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16086 here? I upgraded my Frimware to 2.0.2 from 1.11 the other day... i hope the two arent linked.

Sorry, I don't know what to tell you about your problem. I'd e-mail Amos at Mo0gMusic(dot)com. He can tell you how to access that menu, if it's possible.

that is a pretty old fashioned speaker system.
Simply becuase it is large and heavy with multiple drivers does no mean it will go loud. If anything I find that the cheaper multiway passive speakers have very lossy passive crossovers which lowers their efficiency. Basically they dissipate some percentage of the input as heat in the crossover.
I'm planning on picking up a pair of either the QSC K8 or K10with a single or dual twelve subwoofer from QSC or EV. This will cost about as much as the Taurus did but It will be able to handle my entire synth set up, output about 1500-2000 watts depending on which I settle on, and most importantly will hardly take up any room in my car when I gig out.

I also should add that
"Power handling: 1400 watts peak, 700 watts RMS • Frequency response: 20 Hz - 20 kHz • Sensitivity (1w/1m): 108 dB"
is frankly impossible, especially given the price.
the sensitivity is possible for one of the tweeters or super tweets, but once you add in a passive crossover and a couple 18" drivers the likely spec is 91db or at best 98db 1w/1m.
Oh yeah, and you would still need an amp.

calaverasgrande wrote:that is a pretty old fashioned speaker system.
Simply becuase it is large and heavy with multiple drivers does no mean it will go loud. If anything I find that the cheaper multiway passive speakers have very lossy passive crossovers which lowers their efficiency. Basically they dissipate some percentage of the input as heat in the crossover.
I'm planning on picking up a pair of either the QSC K8 or K10with a single or dual twelve subwoofer from QSC or EV. This will cost about as much as the Taurus did but It will be able to handle my entire synth set up, output about 1500-2000 watts depending on which I settle on, and most importantly will hardly take up any room in my car when I gig out.

I also should add that
"Power handling: 1400 watts peak, 700 watts RMS • Frequency response: 20 Hz - 20 kHz • Sensitivity (1w/1m): 108 dB"
is frankly impossible, especially given the price.
the sensitivity is possible for one of the tweeters or super tweets, but once you add in a passive crossover and a couple 18" drivers the likely spec is 91db or at best 98db 1w/1m.
Oh yeah, and you would still need an amp.

I love the QSC stuff. I just have a Pyle Audio budget. Even after buying the required amp (Pyle PEA 4000) one would still be paying around $1000 after purchasing a basic mixer and all the cables. That's still cheaper than a K10. And yeah, Pyle tweaks the specs on a lot of their stuff. One of my friends tested the PADH182 and got an SPL of 95 dB at 1W/1m. Of course, he also was able to get a 15Hz tone to sound at 80dB running off 500W. For the money, that's not bad.

80 db is not very loud. 120db is loud!
I am surprised it hasnt been mentioned yet. It's like a moonie cult over on Talkbass forums.
There is a family of speaker enclosure designs called "fEarful".
http://greenboy.us/fEARful/
They are designed specifically to reproduce bass guitar, so they are comprised of a LF driver and a midrange driver, some times a tweeter.
The drivers specified in the design are all neodymium, so they are pricey, but it allegedly has great low frequency extension and very high sensitivity.
Oh yeah and they are light!

calaverasgrande wrote:80 db is not very loud. 120db is loud!
I am surprised it hasnt been mentioned yet. It's like a moonie cult over on Talkbass forums.
There is a family of speaker enclosure designs called "fEarful".
http://greenboy.us/fEARful/
They are designed specifically to reproduce bass guitar, so they are comprised of a LF driver and a midrange driver, some times a tweeter.
The drivers specified in the design are all neodymium, so they are pricey, but it allegedly has great low frequency extension and very high sensitivity.
Oh yeah and they are light!

Yeah, I like those cabinets. However, Eminence drivers, while efficient, do not offer the extended frequency ranges that the Pyle does. I doubt these enclosures would allow a driver spec'd at 44Hz to produce a 15Hz tone at any volume; and yeah, Eminence neodymium drivers ARE expensive.

Voltor07 wrote:

calaverasgrande wrote:80 db is not very loud. 120db is loud!
I am surprised it hasnt been mentioned yet. It's like a moonie cult over on Talkbass forums.
There is a family of speaker enclosure designs called "fEarful".
http://greenboy.us/fEARful/
They are designed specifically to reproduce bass guitar, so they are comprised of a LF driver and a midrange driver, some times a tweeter.
The drivers specified in the design are all neodymium, so they are pricey, but it allegedly has great low frequency extension and very high sensitivity.
Oh yeah and they are light!

Yeah, I like those cabinets. However, Eminence drivers, while efficient, do not offer the extended frequency ranges that the Pyle does. I doubt these enclosures would allow a driver spec'd at 44Hz to produce a 15Hz tone at any volume; and yeah, Eminence neodymium drivers ARE expensive.

Any driver that goes to 15hz will not be very efficient or not have very good power handling. It's like they say, light, loud and low, pick any two.
The Eminence neo drivers are the real deal it when it comes to LF reproduction. There are some other models from Beyma and McCauley I think that are competitive, but the eminence 3012 and 3015 are pretty much it for weight, bandwidth and spl.
Besides, that 15-35hz area is highly overrated. Even if you can find/make a speaker that will reproduce it, VLF does not propagate well.
I've found the best way to get consistent sound at multiple venues is to leave my bass freqs pretty flat and work on tailoring the mids of my instruments.
The Eminence neos also have a significantly higher xmax than most competitors in the same watt/cost range.

calaverasgrande wrote:Any driver that goes to 15hz will not be very efficient or not have very good power handling. It's like they say, light, loud and low, pick any two.

www.kineticaudio.com/ampeater.htm I can agree to some extent with what you say. However, I still don't get why hi-fi speaker companies are able to build speakers like the one in the link, and professional speakers, even the heavy ones with relatively low SPL, are sorely lacking in the 30Hz and below department.

calaverasgrande wrote:Any driver that goes to 15hz will not be very efficient or not have very good power handling. It's like they say, light, loud and low, pick any two.
...
Besides, that 15-35hz area is highly overrated. Even if you can find/make a speaker that will reproduce it, VLF does not propagate well.
I've found the best way to get consistent sound at multiple venues is to leave my bass freqs pretty flat and work on tailoring the mids of my instruments.

Agree on emphasizing the mids. The 15-35hz VLF is indeed highly overrated. And most home/bedroom studios aren't big enough for the wavelength that VLF can produce.

Voltor07 wrote: http://www.kineticaudio.com/ampeater.htm I can agree to some extent with what you say. However, I still don't get why hi-fi speaker companies are able to build speakers like the one in the link, and professional speakers, even the heavy ones with relatively low SPL, are sorely lacking in the 30Hz and below department.

Well the one in the link does not give an SPL at 1 meter for 1 watt. That is the standard benckmark which is used to judge sensitivity.
"12" Mineral-filled polymer cone, wide rubber surround, super duty silver coated 1000 watt rated braided tinsel lead wires, deep frame, 3/8" top plate, 3/8" rounded bumped machined back plate, T-shaped steel pole piece, dual poly-cotton spiders, dual terminal 2" voice coils (4 ohms per coil), non-bottoming design. X-max 16 mm"

So it's 4 ohms and allegedly 1000 watts (more likely 500 watts X 2 voice coils) and has an xMax of 16mm.
I dont see a bandwidth or sensitivity measure.

What it boils down to is that there are tradeoffs for every kind of application. You can have sub lows with low sensitivity, or relatively weak lows with high sensitivity. You also have to take into account power handling, or more accurately thermal capacity.
As you go lower in frequency it takes more power to generate sound at the same level. 40 hz takes 100 watts to be as loud as 80 hz at 50 watts. 20 hz will need 200 watts to be as loud. Add this along with how thermal ratings work (an 800 watt woofer FAILS at 800 watts) and the picture starts to get clearer.
There are apparently arcane reasons for this having to do with the surround construction, the former and the voice coil.
What I think it boils down to is this, you can make a nice light driver that has 20-10k bandwidth but it only handles 100 watts.
If you toughen up the speaker to be able to handle 500 watts you no longer have light speaker so you lose the high end. I assume there is a corresponding ding from making the former or surround more robust which affects low frequency.