Moog Percussion controller cinch jones/cables--available?

[EricK]

Thats smart right there! Damn I wish I knew how to do that stuff.

[Electrong]

Mine's dated merely 2 weeks later from yours, Eric.. They probably had a production run of them at that time.

[Electrong]

"And now, back to our regularly-scheduled program.." Does anyone know where these cables that go with the various controllers may be obtained? I need the cable with the connector and the cable that plugs into it with the connector and the cv-control plugs.. I suppose this could be built with a soldering iron and an order from Mouser electronics..

[EricK]

You know, it occurs to me that since you have to rebuild the cables anyway, would there be a way that you could just install jacks on the drum?

THe thing that kindof sucks is that with a cable permanantly atatched, you have to set the drum on the edge of the table or whatever you put it on unless you have the tom stand. If you pulled an Etherwave Plus type of CV outputs to it, that would be very interesting, but I don't know how you would rig it up to the power source in jack form. I thought Id mention it because its a bit odd having to set it hanging off a cable or something to use it.

Its similar to the ep1 pedal. The ep3 should be like the original featuring a removable cable.

Unuless you did something similar to what CZ did. Get the male and female Acc jacks and then you would probably be able to send the wires to the right places after that. Just custom mod it out might be something id be willing to consider if I bought one that had the cables cut.

Was yours checked by the same guys too? lol Thats cool. I wish we had some info as to how many of the various accessories were made.

[Electrong]

Same inspector, different assembler and tester. Slightly different dates, but in late Sept '73 through Oct '73. I'll get pictures today. It makes sense they'd be close as they're both Ludwig drums, so you'd think they were getting the boards ready for when the drums arrived and assembled them for that run. I wonder how they were assembled: Maybe they soldered the insides together and then put them inside the drums. I'm sure they applied the Moog stickers to them. I'm going to get it to original as possible because the Minimoog seems fairly closely related to the Moog drum in that you can utilize the red and black plugs to determine either variable pitch or variable filter, depending on which plug you go into, and the power supply is provided by the cinch jones connector. Although I have some soldering experience, and may well end up ordering through Mouser for the cinch jones connectors and the other plugs, obviously I would rather find a source for these cables without building them from scratch.

This is made to control other synths that have V-triggers on them as well. Obviously it is much more limited than a keyboard controller or sequencer, but use with a drum set and/or as a triggering device should be of use. Still in the preliminary stages though.. Anyone know of a good source for the accessory cables? Thanks!

[Electrong]

Ordering from Mouser next week.. 2 1/4" audio plugs, 2 male 6 pin cinch-jones plugs and 1 female cinch jones jack. They have the (7) multi lead cable, but it appears they have a minimum length of 50'. Fortunately there's an old radio/tv/tube amp tech in my area who told me he has a friend who has cable and can get me as much length as I need of it. He will assist me in the correct soldering of the leads if necessary, as well. It may take a little while but moving towards the preliminary hooking-up of the unit to my minimoog..

Questions (any model D accessory users out there): (a)Plugging into the accessory jacks doesn't defeat the keyboard control, does it? (b) So I can run more than one accessory controller into the mini (there are 2 accessory plugs providing power and/or cv control)?

[EricK]

It likely will not defeat the keyboard. Its just like any other analogue synth that I have, the voltage going into it, either from your ribbon controller or being triggered by your percussion controller or from whatever source will be.....i don't know if ADDED or SUMMED would be the corect words.....so Ill say dependant on the last keyboard note depressed.

So if you hooked up a CV sequencer to your Model D, Micro, or whatever...you can transpose that sequence by pressing a different key.

When you power an Oscillator, it vibrates constantly. But what frequency does it vibrate at? It will hold the frequency of the last voltage that it was told to play. So if you think about people who are logging on here saying their Oscillators are dead on their Voyagers...what is happening is that the Keyscan board on their Voyagers had failed. THe oscillators were producing mere clicks that were seemingly unaffected by the keyboard. THe voltage was then so tiny that they were barely audible even when messing with the octave knob. Im sure there is a far more accurate technical explanation for the keyscan malfunction and its affect on the oscs, or why the oscs act in such a way to the last note depressed but ill leave that to another member. I think its contained in the micromoog manual though in regards to hooking multiple Micros together.


Plugging into the Accessory jacks only supplies the power to your drum or ribbon controller. You can power your drum controller with your Model D and run the other plugs to any other CV device.

If the Mini has 2 acc jacks then surely you can use them at the same time.

[Electrong]

Why is it a 6 prong plug if it only supplies power? No CV control on tap there? Why would a Moog drum controller have both a cinch jones plug and another cinch jones female connected to it, forming a breakout box with another cinch-jones for power and the 2 1/4" plugs and the S-trig? Maybe I'm not observing this correctly. Kinda weird. Maybe I should consult both the Minimoog service guide, operation guide and percussion controller manual.

Ok, I've been searching and found a post from another topic by MC wherein he says the accessory jack is only for power. So I need only have one male Cinch jones plug, and then an S-trig plug and 2 1/4" CV plugs. Now if I could get the color of cable (or the number from the plug on the board) to the appropriate prongs on the Cinch Jones jack and the various 1/4" plugs and the s-trig, I'll be in business--I think..

[Electrong]

I scanned the 1130 service notes a while back, they are archived at the Synthfool site.:Moog 1130 schematics and service notes
And here is a handy Cinch page with some part numbers and links to Mouser and Newark stock.http://www.cinch.com/products/electroni ... amp-wlocks

Not sure if you want to make it stock, or just DIY a new connector type. The Moog accessories worked on varied power supplies from the +/- 10V of the Mini to +12/-6V on modulars, to +/-15V on others.
I made a panel on one of my modulars with the 8 pin Cinch socket to power any of the Moog accessories, with the four outputs of CV1, CV2, s-trig and V-trig.

With the schematic you should be able to get it up and running!

EDIT: updated the synthfool link

Thank you for this. So it appears I need various cable, one for out-of-the controller with at least 7 leads in the cable, and then various cables for after the 8 pin connector. Are these connectors numbered? I see the schematic and the place where the various color leads go to.

[CZ Rider]

Are these connectors numbered? I see the schematic and the place where the various color leads go to.

They are numbered on the inside where you solder the connections.
In the schematic the 8 pin cinch male end is identified as P1.

So, red wire to pin 1, green to pin2, black to pin 3, and so on. Just remember to slide the hood on first before soldering.
Here is the stock setup you need.

And the schematic for the multi ended accessory cable.

Wouldn't be a bad idea to make a 10' extension cable with 8 pin male/female ends. I made one of these since the 1150 ribbon only has about a 2' cord. The stock 1130 had a long cord attached, to reach the drum kit.

[Electrong]

GREAT! Thanks for all the info, CZ.

Also thanks, Eric, for all the great info and input about this. I'll respond when I'm done putting the cables on the drum.

[Electrong]

So, red wire to pin 1, green to pin2, black to pin 3, and so on. Just remember to slide the hood on first before soldering.
Here is the stock setup you need.
The stock 1130 had a long cord attached, to reach the drum kit.

I have finally wired this. . Wish I'd read your post again.. Precisely put, I forgot to put the hood on first! Oh well, got to practice some soldering and de-soldering techniques..

Anywho, I am hoping I got all the wires properly hooked up and such, testing phase is about to begin.

One of the reasons it took so long was I looked in Mouser catalog and did not find the 8 pin cj plugs and sockets. They were "discontinued." I then started an alternative plan whereby I ordered some molex connection kits that were very flimsy but as I was about to go through with it, searching for instructions on inserting the pins into the molex connectors, I found the cj plugs, sold by Molex, in Mouser catalog, right next to the discontinued ones. So they still sell them. Just got them in the other day and I have an 8 pin "extension cord" that is around 7' long, along with the 8 pin plug that is attached to all the jacks and cj plugs (for an additional 3-4' length) to go to the back of the mini. Wish me luck!

Thanks for all the input. As a drummer, I have been anticipating trying this thing out.

[Electrong]

At the risk of "bumping" this topic, I'm going to address the functionality of the controller now.

I have plugged it in and so far don't see much difference between the 2 different 1/4" cv outs. The tapping of the drum creates a steady cv output from both the 1/4" plugs, when plugged into the various Oscillator, Loudness or Filter jacks. Additionally, the S-plug seems to cause a "permanently on" position on the note? Or am I just perceiving this. When the drum is played the voltages are exhibited by a note variously altered by filter, loudness or oscillator depending on the hardness of the strike on the drum. The S-trigger seems to otherwise bypass the envelopes. Is there a way to trigger the envelopes when playing the drum, or are they bypassed when the drum is played with the s-trigger plugged in? I'm asking this because I would like to be able to trigger an envelope (contour) with a strike of the drum, so that if the decay switch is on, the note created would trail down with the filter envelope when the drum is struck. So far it seems that plugging the controller in bypasses the envelopes. I would think the same thing happens when utilitizing other controllers, such as the Sample and Hold or the ribbon controller.

[EricK]

First of all, Im interested to see your video and final product.

Now, Im not an EE, butif I was to guess, since the speaker is rewired to act like a microphone, I would surmize without proper training or knowledge of the circuitry, that the drum is really just an envelope follower, because it acts just like one. The amplitude of the signal that is received by the speaker corresponds to a higher voltage. Does this sound like its accurate to you?

Since Im more familliar with the operations of a modular than with the inputs of a Mini, I can't speak to your questions aboutbypassing the envelopes.


Eric

[Kevin Lightner]

Sounds like the S-trig is not working or wired incorrectly.
They are just an env follower / trigger / peak hold circuit for the most part.
Sounds like the voltage out is ok, but the trigger is not.
I wish you luck.

Btw, Cinch plugs are made by several manufacturers.
Perhaps 3-5 different makers.
So no shortage of them around.