Moog Percussion controller cinch jones/cables--available?

[Electrong]

I am in the process of getting a Moog Percussion controller and was wondering if the cinch-jones connector is a part available through Mouser? Haven't received it yet, but it will need a new cable. Does anyone have the 1130 Percussion controller and could you put some pictures of the cable(s) and connectors? I understand there's an S-trigger plug, and a Cinch-jones connector. As I recall there was another topic with the color-coded wire connections and where on the connector they are supposed to be connected. Any info up to and including the service guide would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[EricK]

Hey,
Great score with the 1130! Its a really cool device and I think it would be nice to have a few of them. I hope yours is in better condition than mine.

When you get yours, remove the head and see the service tag, and that foam stuff....you might just be further ahead pulling it out of there because it turns to oil or something as it deteoriates.

The plug is a Cinch Jones, and mouser has them handy, i can't direct you to the exact part. But if you join Knob tweak (a great resource for all things moog) then you can follow this link to the service manual.
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QKNITCDAoD ... Manual.pdf

THe cables are the CJ trigger output, the accessory power plug (for use with Mini, Micro, SOnix 6, etc...any synth with the accessary jack). There is also a black cable that sends a static voltage, and a red cable that sends a variable voltage as related to the scale pot on the drum.

If you can find a vintage ludwig tom stand, you can mount it.

Also, I have pictures of mine on the knob tweak site under silent_accomplice

[Electrong]

Thanks Erik! Being a drummer, I've been on the hunt for one for quite a while, hoping it will be useful triggering the Mini..

[Electrong]

Well I've tried to open that file but can't, and I can't seem to find the Knob Tweak group you're talking about. Any other input regarding these is appreciated, I'll probably try to attach the cables myself, and if that doesn't work, it's a trip to the synth tech!

[EMwhite]

If I'm not mistaken, the CZ-Rider dude has one. He posts here regularly and is a good chap.

Contact him.

[EricK]

I am also a percussionist but in my opinion I don't think it would be well integrated in my kit.
One thing that I did though was set the scale high and set up a bass patch on the Micro and treat the 1130 like a ride cymbal to simulate a walking bassline.

I think the best way is to quantize it, otherwise it sounds like sample and hold. Heres a youtube vide that I did with it, though my wife laughs at my "jamming" on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIZNeCpU9tQ
CZ has some better videos of it, but unfirtunately there aren't alot of videos on youtube yet of the 1130.

Heres the link from Greg's signature
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/KnobTweak

Be sure to get a yahoo email account, include your forum name so he knows who you are, the the secret entrance information is to name the Fooger missing from the lineup.

Join that. Then when you get accepted, go to controllers, and then theres the 1130 information. THe accessary manual is there, you can't access it yet because you haven't been activated.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing what you come up with and seeing how well preserved your 1130 is. If the scale pot doesn't seem to have any affect on the responce...then Mike Bucki told me just to tweak the crap out of it. It shoudl work after that. THe circuit seems relatively simple.


Eric

[Electrong]

I was told by a tech in Kansas the unit is pretty simple, and if it gets to that point I'll just have him rewire it.. I just tried to sign up for Knobtweak. I just tried to join like any other Yahoo group, I didn't see the part about entering my Moog forum name until after I entered the join the group info, but hopefully they'll let me in. Thanks. Obviously this is a controller for the Moog synths that have the accessory connector.. Even if it only makes a non-musical blip or bleep, I may be able to find a use for it, because I've got a few other analog synth drum pads (simmons sds8 and a standalone synth pad similar to a syndrum but made by Apollo).

I'm sure I'll find out much more after getting the unit. You use it with your Micromoog? So, can you still control the Micro with the keyboard when the 1130 is plugged in?

I was hoping one could simply trigger a sustained note chosen by depressing a key on the keyboard, but from what I was seeing on your youtube and other videos, this controls pitch according to the amplitude of the signal and how hard it is hit..

Interesting that the 1130 utilizes a speaker under the drum head, this is the same principle as the above-mentioned Apollo synth drum and, in a similar fashion, the Yamaha Subkick bass drum microphone. The speaker wires send a signal when the cone is moved..I've been looking for one of these for a very long time..

[Electrong]

It just arrived. It seems in good nick, the foam insides were removed, the back panel was there but not attached. So I snapped some pictures of front, back and insides. As you can see the wire was severed. I'll probably shop at Mouser and get the necessary wire and put new connectors on it. I'll add the other pictures later, they're just too large so I'll have to crop 'em later.

[MC]

I love the fact that the transducer in that thing is a speaker used as a microphone. One of those "slap why didn't I think of that?"

[EricK]

If you think about it, when you depress a key, that voltage is held in the Osc, but the envelope is closed. This is why if you are going to hook 2 micromoogs together you have to press a certian key (the tuning key for lack of a better term) and they will track. But you can hit a key of a different interval and they will track at that interval. MC could tell you why this is. The Voyager does the same thing. THe Taurus does the same thing. The only way to get sustained notes is to open the envelope up all the way.

Basically the scale knob gives you higher pitches for harder hits. On my video it basically sounded like a sample and hold, which is why most people choose to quantize it. Another thing that it is great for is stepping sequences. I think one of the 1130's was seen on the Moog movie near the beginning.

If you turn the scale down to zero then you will trigger that last note you depressed.

With this, I like longer envelopes, that way you can have something evolve if you have it programmed right. BUT whats really great is that you can really simulate some Star Wars Blaster battles with fast envelopes and the right programming.

THe thing about the drum controller was to be able to play the synth in a different way....much faster than to fingers can, and drum strokes can definately do this.

Now, one thing that I did when I first got it back in 2006 was to hook the accessory port to the micro, and then hook the other cables to the voyager. You might want to consider not anchoring the cables together so closely so that you can really seperate them. For instance, having a cp251 you can mult the signals, but think about trying to send the CJ plug to a synth and then the other cables to something else....the cables are very short. THey are all designed to be connected to 1 single synth. Im sure that if you are going to rewire it you can figure out an alternate way to power it.

Im also thinking that these units at this age, the pain falling of is going to continue to be an issue. My paint is falling off and my pots rotate in the holes drilled. Also my ACC and CJ plugs have white (corrosion i guess) coating on them. My 1130 resides in the box it was shipped in until I can find someone who can put a clear coat of paint on it or something and get it back up to specs.

WHen I first saw one on ebay I thought "a moog drum with pots on it...Holy #*&^$#(*& I have to get it" I think the day I saw it again and bid on it i was prepared to spend 400 bucks on it lolol. Hardly worth it now that I think about it, but the novelty of it is really nice. Still looking for a vintage Ludwig tom stand.



May i inquire as to how much you paid for yours?

[Electrong]

Those ludwig clip mounts are easily available, I think I may have one.. For this 1130. The paint is just like the lacquer Ludwig used, but when this drum was made, Ludwig was rarely lacquering anything, only a few finishes were available with lacquer and they were mostly clear, to show the mahogany or maple finished drums..

I had a much-older Ludwig snare drum that was black like this drum and it was flaking profusely as well. It is very easy to pull the hardware and either re-finish it or even re-wrap the drum so it matches the drums you play. You'd have to remove the Moog sticker, though, which would possibly lower its collectible value as it would no longer be original.

The link to the Moog page that features all the controllers they offered in the early 70s states that if you don't want to control the pitch of the synth sound, just plug into the filter jack. I'll experiment with it. The Minimoog has the decay switch which could be activated that would allow for as much sustain as you'd want. Not sure if the drum bypasses the trigger that the keyboard depressing does. That is cool idea of advancing a sequence. that would trigger the envelope with the drum.

Star wars sounds would be interesting but the other analog synth drums I have can do that as well, and the mini obviously can be tuned to where the oscillators are playing at whatever intervals they're tweaked at, and the 3rd oscillator can be set to a drone tone. So I'm looking forward to exploring the possibilites.

Great idea of keeping the plugs with an amount of length so they can be sent to a different synth..

Thanks.. Insides look good, fingers crossed that it works well. I wonder why the cable was cut?

[Trigger]

Those ludwig clip mounts are easily available, I think I may have one.. For this 1130. The paint is just like the lacquer Ludwig used, but when this drum was made, Ludwig was rarely lacquering anything, only a few finishes were available with lacquer and they were mostly clear, to show the mahogany or maple finished drums..
I had a much-older Ludwig snare drum that was black like this drum and it was flaking profusely as well. It is very easy to pull the hardware and either re-finish it or even re-wrap the drum so it matches the drums you play. You'd have to remove the Moog sticker, though, which would possibly lower its collectible value as it would no longer be original.

IIRC, Moog used Ludwig concert toms for their first few production runs. Later drums were Pearl.

[EricK]

These pics may be a day late to whet your whistle as your unit has already arrived, but for anyone else's benefit who may stumble upon this thread, they might want to see more of this wonderful gem. I think though, hearing CZ's usage of that S&H module that Id like to get one of those in the future. Now come to think of it, if you want to see the way the cables are supposed to look like, replace that big hunk of a box with a rubber piece that splits the cable up, you can see how short those cables are. I think the percussion cables have a little more length than in that picture but you get the idea. Basically, they are just long enough to hook up to your mini or whatever.

[EricK]

Another thing that you might want to consider, I mean, I don't know what synths you have, Im assuming you have a Mini, but whatever other synths you might have, consider instead of a CJ plug, you can convert it to a ¼ cable like the dotcom V trig to S trig cables. I wouldn't be sure as to how that would be done but those vintage Moog manuals usually have directions In there to to that I THINK. It would be very compatible with the current like of Moog stuff. I just thought Id throw that out there.

As for the filters, yeah that would be good, sort of like a sample and hold on a filter, but basically anywhere you can stick it would be good. I did the filter of the micro and wasn't too enthused about its result, but I guess with different emphisis and such it would be nicer. Il bet it could be used to step the murf perhaps which would be really neat.


Really what Im most interested in doing is getting some contact mics (I have 2) and seeing if I can get those to trigger the synths. THe only thing that has kept me from really trying it is that I didn't know if the contacts that I have (Simmons....and not the original company) were contact mics or triggers. I bought them thinking that they were triggers but they turned out to be contact mics because they have a ¼ output and send audio, so I guess a few envelope followers are in order for all that, unles I had some midi stuff happening.

I wouldn't mind seeing pictures of your kit.
Eric






Edit: I found this I don't know if this is what you are looking for
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/629/1101.pdf

[CZ Rider]

I scanned the 1130 service notes a while back, they are archived at the Synthfool site.:Moog 1130 schematics and service notes
And here is a handy Cinch page with some part numbers and links to Mouser and Newark stock.http://www.cinch.com/products/electroni ... amp-wlocks

Not sure if you want to make it stock, or just DIY a new connector type. The Moog accessories worked on varied power supplies from the +/- 10V of the Mini to +12/-6V on modulars, to +/-15V on others.
I made a panel on one of my modulars with the 8 pin Cinch socket to power any of the Moog accessories, with the four outputs of CV1, CV2, s-trig and V-trig.

With the schematic you should be able to get it up and running!

EDIT: updated the synthfool link