A REAL Moog

In a Moog Mood? Here's a forum for discussion of general Moog topics.
The Analog Organist

Post by The Analog Organist » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:44 am

This forum string certainly demonstrates that Moog users are extreemly pleased with the work of the Moog Music staff. No doubt about it.

I didn't mean to suggest a nostalgic clinging to old gear, since I don't have or want any. All my equipment is brand new, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Nor do I want the Polymoog or Micromoog to be reissued as they were, since I didn't have either. But I do have a deep appreciation for aspects of old synthesizer designs that certainly are lacking today. For example, I'd like to see a variety of instruments - including a Moog poly - that didn't require deep menu diving. I can get along with the menu feature when I have to, but I find it to be a pain in the neck. It also seems to be acceptable now that you can't tweak two parameters at the same time, since only one parameter can register in the LCD window at a time. Again, this can seem minor, but I do find myself fighting against such a design. Formerly, programming an instrument was much more spontaneous, creative, and direct. You didn't have to get up close to read little digits in a window, but could program more broadly. In other words, it was more like registrating a church organ and less like programming a computer. Organs offer a large variety of musical tones, from bright and strong, to deep and nasal, to dark and delicate. They also offer about ten or fifteen presets, which are small thumb pistons located just below each keyboard (as well as just above the pedalboard). You can actually reach these presets as you're playing. This was my musical training ground, and it has happily shaped my view of synthesizers.

Contrary to most posters on this forum, I don't care for many of the features that are now crammed into synthesizers and considered standard. I simply want an instrument with huge musical potential for controlling all aspects of pitch, timbre, and modulation. For example, I would rather have five or six oscillators contained in a portable instrument, and be spared the sequencer, arpeggiator, editor, and vast memory. Spare me the instruments that cry out for a laptop. I just want a tremendous musical instrument.

I realize all of this belly aching probably puts me in the modular category, but I'd rather not head in that direction. I don't have the room, and have in mind only portable instruments. Probably what I have in mind is a simplified but multi-oscillatored Andromeda A6 with the classic Moog sound. It just amazes me that you cannot find a portable synth that offers this number of oscllators. Two oscillators seem to be bare bones, just barely enough to get started. Yet, with six oscillators, subtractive synthesis can approach additive synthesisis. It seems so obvious that this would be an outstanding feature, as opposed to so many other features that are now standard.

I do also prefer the classic "Moog sound." I've read a post or two that amazingly denied such a sound exists. I hope the Moog staff will maintain this quality, so that the Moog sound will always be available and identifiable. Surely, this is the signature of Bob Moog himself.
Last edited by The Analog Organist on Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mayidunk
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Post by mayidunk » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:39 pm

I recently read an old article where someone (I think it may have been Jan Hammer...) was saying that back in the old days, synth manufacturers would take their cues from what they saw on MTV. If they saw that a popular band was playing a certain synth model of theirs, they would then use that to drive other designs, in the hopes that doing so would sell more product. Jan's assertion was that synth manufacturers should instead design their products from the musician's point of view, creating instruments that were playable, rather than "keyboards" (italics mine) that looked popular, and marketable.

In the end, however, I think that Moog is producing instruments that are geared towards the musician's needs. However, especially in the current economic climate, I wouldn't hold it against them if they allowed some of their product lines to go in a more "marketable" direction, as it were. I'd rather they do that and stay in business, than to "keep it real" and go under!

$0.02... humbly submitted.

Bob

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Post by theglyph » Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:56 pm

For those who don't know the two people who are keeping Bob's legacy in the company alive are Steve Dunnington and Amos. Steve spent over a decade working with Bob and Amos, being Amos :D , absorbed all he could during his time with Dr. Moog. SteveD and Amos, along with Cyril and Rick, are keeping Bob's innovative way of thinking alive and well.

There will be many great things to come for sure. I can't wait to see what's next!!

Cheers,
Aaron

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Real Men Don't Play ARP's

Post by FlametopFred » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:02 pm

The Analog Organist wrote:At this point, though, any all-new instruments that the Moog Music company develops will be free of Bob Moog's direct influence .

I don't know how the rest of you feel about this, but the fact does remove for me SOME of the attraction of Moog Music in general. What special meaning does the name brand "Moog" have from now on?
The same can be said about anything:
Steinway pianos
Gibson guitars
Ford Motor Cars
Beatles

Sure, at a certain point something is lost. But much is also gained.
Henry Ford was an idiot as much as he was brilliant.

Time marches on.

I owned a Minimoog for 30 years.
I owned a Memorymoog for 20 years.
I owned Moog Graphic Equalizers, Parametric Equalizers and played all kinds of Moogs: Micro, Minit, Poly, Modular Systems.



I met Bob Moog once.
I shook his hand.

He was "on tour" with Raymond Kurzweil when the K250 came out.



And he died of a brain tumour, the same thing that killed my dad.
There is one video of Bob Moog that could be of my dad.
They were both similar men - smart, inventive, down to earth.

So MOOG is deep with me.

Moog is a huge part of my life.
And time marches on, there is nothing can be done about that.

I like the original technology, and how sounds were made.
But I equally like the new stuff. The Creamware ASB, the Nord stuff.

Music is to be made and thanks to Bob Moog we have some pretty amazing tools ~ even (and especially) because of the legacy that he created.

In a side thought: Moog reminds me of Asimov. Brilliant but humble visionaries that designed our world today - - or saw it coming.

But I think Bob Moog would be the first to fire up a plug-in and say "wow! this is neat!" and embrace what is good, tweak what is bad and just keep on putting tools into the hands of musicians.

Bob Moog is dead. Long Live Moog (in any form).

FlametopFred
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m o o g

Post by FlametopFred » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:06 pm

I like seeing what's coming next around the corner.


I still remember the longing I had for a Minimoog. From the time I was 12 until I got one at 18 (when I could afford it) that was all I thought about.


On the other hand, you have a Moog and so does every other Moog user. Yeah, they are all different living breathing instruments.

But I keep hearing the same old sounds coming out of the Moogs or Moog-Clones.

Time for something new.
And I will embrace (and hopefully long for, lust after) whatever comes next around the corner.

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_DemonDan_
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Re: m o o g

Post by _DemonDan_ » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:09 pm

FlametopFred wrote:But I keep hearing the same old sounds coming out of the Moogs or Moog-Clones.
I'm pretty sure that's not the Moog's fault ;-)
_ :twisted: _DemonDan_ :twisted: _

FlametopFred
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not exactly

Post by FlametopFred » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:26 pm

not exactly - -

But it's a fault of our hanging on to the past.

On the other hand, a 300 year old violin is still played and still great, better than anything else. A 50 year old Les Paul still sings out better than anything else.


Why is that ?

Are synths different than guitars?

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Re: A REAL Moog

Post by jon_kull » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:40 pm

The Analog Organist wrote:The Voyager, Little Phatty, Taurus III, and Moogerfoogers have the fingerprints of Bob Moog all over them. They're truly Moogish. At this point, though, any all-new instruments that the Moog Music company develops will be free of Bob Moog's direct influence (although he's certainly influenced the staffers, and probably has left behind a number of blueprints for future instruments).

I don't know how the rest of you feel about this, but the fact does remove for me SOME of the attraction of Moog Music in general. What special meaning does the name brand "Moog" have from now on? New instruments will not be the by-product of the brilliant and original Bob Moog mind, but will merely carry his name. I know many of you are fans of the company's staffers, but they just ain't the real thing, even if Bob had a profound influence on them.

My point is this: I hope Moog Music revitalizes some of Bob's old instruments - the Polymoog, the Micromoog, etc. Fine, let the company update them, as they did the Voyager. I'm all for that. But personally, I'd much rather buy an instrument that carried Bob's name in a meaningful way, rather than just as a marketing advantage.

Moog Music, bring out some of Bob's old classics. Give us something with his fingerprints all over it, and not just instruments with his label on them.
Maybe it's time people stop fetishizing gear simply because someone's name is on it and started buying it because (more importantly) it's useful for creating music. I hope Moog Music is successful in whatever they do regardless of the fact that Bob Moog won't have had a direct hand in any of their future creations. But that's just my opinion...

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history recalls

Post by FlametopFred » Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:51 pm

Mr. Moog User himself, Keith Emerson, even stopped using the Moog.
He kind of had to, to keep ELP fresh, to keep moving forward.

There was only so much you could do with a Hammond/Moog combo.

Keith turned to the GX-1 (and later to other excellent instruments).

"Lucky Man" is a standard Moog Testing Song whenever a new Moog clone comes out.

"Fanfare for a Common Man" is just as iconic. But nobody has yet come out with a GX-1 clone.

Anyway, it is hard to imagine "Fanfare" on the Moog. Yes, possible, but would not have been the same. I would never knock what the Moog was - it was great. But the GX-1 may have been better than the Moog.

The past is great, but I think the future can be just as great.

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soundxplorer
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Re: A REAL Moog

Post by soundxplorer » Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:25 pm

jon_kull wrote:Maybe it's time people stop fetishizing gear simply because someone's name is on it and started buying it because (more importantly) it's useful for creating music.
The most talented artists will always find a way to put their own unique "signature" on their music, no matter what gear you give them.
But "talented artists" are the exception, not the norm. The rest of us just have credit cards and a fun, escapist hobby. :D
Gear: Moog LP, Gibson LP, lots of FX

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Re: A REAL Moog

Post by jon_kull » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:02 pm

soundxplorer wrote:
jon_kull wrote:Maybe it's time people stop fetishizing gear simply because someone's name is on it and started buying it because (more importantly) it's useful for creating music.
The most talented artists will always find a way to put their own unique "signature" on their music, no matter what gear you give them.
But "talented artists" are the exception, not the norm. The rest of us just have credit cards and a fun, escapist hobby. :D
Yes, but that's not the fetishizing I'm talking about. I bought a Voyager because I liked the way it sounds, liked the simplicity of its interface and the quality of it's build. Whether or not Bob Moog had a hand in it's development is irrelevant to me because it stands on it's own as an instrument. I don't care so much about the history behind it. It's kind of a cool added bonus but it doesn't really help me make music in any way which is what a musical instrument is for. I guess what I'm trying to say is that just because future Moog products will not be designed by Bob Moog doesn't make them any better or worse than ones that were designed by Bob Moog. How useful they are to you as a musician is a better indicator of value than the logo on the box or who may (or may not) have touched it during the design and manufacturing process. But that's just my opinion...

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Re: A REAL Moog

Post by anoteoftruth » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:03 pm

jon_kull wrote: How useful they are to you as a musician is a better indicator of value than the logo on the box or who may (or may not) have touched it during the design and manufacturing process. But that's just my opinion...
Amen.
Moog Voyager RME / Moog LP SE 2 / Nord Rack 1 / Microkorg / Korg ER-1 / Triggerfinger / Rocktron Banshee talk box / Ableton live / Guru / Lots of non-electric musical instruments.

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Re: A REAL Moog

Post by Voltor07 » Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:20 pm

jon_kull wrote:Yes, but that's not the fetishizing I'm talking about. I bought a Voyager because I liked the way it sounds, liked the simplicity of its interface and the quality of it's build. Whether or not Bob Moog had a hand in it's development is irrelevant to me because it stands on it's own as an instrument. I don't care so much about the history behind it. It's kind of a cool added bonus but it doesn't really help me make music in any way which is what a musical instrument is for. I guess what I'm trying to say is that just because future Moog products will not be designed by Bob Moog doesn't make them any better or worse than ones that were designed by Bob Moog. How useful they are to you as a musician is a better indicator of value than the logo on the box or who may (or may not) have touched it during the design and manufacturing process. But that's just my opinion...
I bought a Little Phatty for the same reason...and because I couldn't afford a Voyager. I am a mere hobbyist...not a musician by any stretch of the imagination. What I noticed first when I was in the music store, was the high price of the LP. So I checked out cheaper instruments with more features while I was there...MicroKORG, DSI Evolver and Prophet 08...and some Roland thing that was on clearance. I liked the quality and ease of use the LP had. I liked the way it looked, and the sound was HUGE to my ears...I had never touched an analog synth up to that point, but I knew I had to have it. Of course, I had wanted a Moog modular since high school, but that was pretty out of the question. :lol:
Minitaur, CP-251, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Pyramid stereo power amp, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ, dot com modular.

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Post by metron » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:30 pm

Personally I would rather not see Moog redo more old instruments. I am confident that they can move forward with new product development that stays true to the Moog name, whatever that means. :) While Bob is not with us anymore I think he would agree.
MF102, MF104M, CP251, Minitaur

The Analog Organist

Post by The Analog Organist » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:29 am

In light of all that has been said here, something begs to be asked: What is a Moog? Is there anything distinctly Moogish? Some might answer, "Quality," or else, "Innovation." But Moog has no monopoly on such things. Moog must be something other than the company that produces the instruments it does.

I say that Moog is a distinctive sound. I really like that distinctive sound, and would like, not only for the company to produce high quality and innovative instruments, but to produce high quality and innovative instruments with that distinctive sound, the true signature of Moog synthesizers.

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