I would like to buy a vintage polyphonic analog synth. All these have been restored to great cosmetic condition, electronics checked and so on. So, among these polysynths:
a. Elka Synthex
b. Oberheim Matrix 12
c. Roland Jupiter 8 (either 12-bit or 14-bit)
d. SCI Prophet 5 (either 3.2 or 3.3)
1. What is the most reliable (doesn't fail and so on)
2. If it does fail, what is the easiest to fix?
The most reliable analog polysynth
The most reliable analog polysynth
The walls of Jericho were brought down by a Minimoog.
-
Kevin Lightner
- Posts: 1587
- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:20 pm
- Location: Wrightwood
C - JP8, though I've never touched an A (Elka)
I also think perhaps the Alesis Andromeda might be more reliable than all of them, even though it wasn't on the list.
As to what fails and is easiest to fix, things start becoming subjective.
A minor problem with a great tech?
A serious problem with a bad tech?
I also think perhaps the Alesis Andromeda might be more reliable than all of them, even though it wasn't on the list.
As to what fails and is easiest to fix, things start becoming subjective.
A minor problem with a great tech?
A serious problem with a bad tech?
Hi Kevin,
thanks for the reply. I have an Andromeda already but I was looking to add something... well vintage
Based on your experience, isn't the Jupiter 8 a pain to calibrate? I think I have read somewhere in the Moog forum that it can get really hairy.
What I want most of these is the Synthex, but it's a bit difficult to find users reporting (any) reliability issues.
thanks for the reply. I have an Andromeda already but I was looking to add something... well vintage
Based on your experience, isn't the Jupiter 8 a pain to calibrate? I think I have read somewhere in the Moog forum that it can get really hairy.
What I want most of these is the Synthex, but it's a bit difficult to find users reporting (any) reliability issues.
The walls of Jericho were brought down by a Minimoog.
I have owned an Andromeda for about 4 years (a very early version) and have had zero issues with it.
It has made some incredibly wanky sounds at times when I first turn it on, but after tuning it always comes back. Seems to like a couple of tunings, though. I would probably be better to turn it on a while before I want to play it, then I would probably only have to tune it once.
It has made some incredibly wanky sounds at times when I first turn it on, but after tuning it always comes back. Seems to like a couple of tunings, though. I would probably be better to turn it on a while before I want to play it, then I would probably only have to tune it once.
Thanks Bob!!
-
Kevin Lightner
- Posts: 1587
- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:20 pm
- Location: Wrightwood
Yeah, the JP8 has hundreds of adjustments.
More if they're a very early one. (not just 12 bit, but EARLY 12 bit.)
Not fun at all to calibrate. Takes many hours of concentration to do right.
The Andromeda has one adjustment trim, I think.
It's in the power supply.
I had an Andromeda once.
I was at the original design meeting at Alesis, gave my inputs, did some light prototyping and was later a beta tester.
Mine was red.
Soon after the A6 basically had its electronics done, it took a while to get the software completed.
They had problems with the programmers and Alesis was financially hurting.
Nearing the end of the beta test program, I sold mine.
It was probably the first A6 ever sold since they hadn't yet been officially released.
I sold it to an LA session keyboardist who was going to be on the Tonight Show that night.
He said he might use it then, but I asked that he didn't.
If that A6 was on TV, all hell would have broken loose between Alesis and their dealers.
But I hear it still works and it never gave me any problems.
I too have heard of some problems with them and I don't doubt those that claim such.
I just tend to think it's usually first an operator error, then hardware.
It's a very complex synth.
But it would still be MY first choice if I was to ever buy a polysynth.
It's made both for synthesists and keyboardists.
The only thing I'm really disappointed about it is the quality of the controls.
More if they're a very early one. (not just 12 bit, but EARLY 12 bit.)
Not fun at all to calibrate. Takes many hours of concentration to do right.
The Andromeda has one adjustment trim, I think.
It's in the power supply.
I had an Andromeda once.
I was at the original design meeting at Alesis, gave my inputs, did some light prototyping and was later a beta tester.
Mine was red.
Soon after the A6 basically had its electronics done, it took a while to get the software completed.
They had problems with the programmers and Alesis was financially hurting.
Nearing the end of the beta test program, I sold mine.
It was probably the first A6 ever sold since they hadn't yet been officially released.
I sold it to an LA session keyboardist who was going to be on the Tonight Show that night.
He said he might use it then, but I asked that he didn't.
If that A6 was on TV, all hell would have broken loose between Alesis and their dealers.
But I hear it still works and it never gave me any problems.
I too have heard of some problems with them and I don't doubt those that claim such.
I just tend to think it's usually first an operator error, then hardware.
It's a very complex synth.
But it would still be MY first choice if I was to ever buy a polysynth.
It's made both for synthesists and keyboardists.
The only thing I'm really disappointed about it is the quality of the controls.
[quote="Kevin Lightner"]It's a very complex synth.
No kidding. I almost sold mine after a year of owning it, even after really trying to go through the manual with it. Suddenly though, it just kind of clicked with me and we became friends.
I still don't use it to a quarter of it's capacity though. I basically work of off presets and then tweak from there.
Seeing MY limitations with it has made me give up the long held ambition of owning a modular synth. I just don't think that I would use it to it's full potential.
I was talking to a buddy of mine who is quite well versed in modulars (and owns a couple) and he was discussing how he patches his Voyager to this and that and how he does all of his pot mapping, etc. It struck me right there that his brain was working on a whole different level than mine. He was thinking in modular mode and I could not.
I do recommend the Andromeda, though, except that for many like me, it will take the average guy a long time to finally realize that he likes the synth. The Andromeda is truly a synth that has to grow on most people. I think that one of the biggest problems with the synth is that the available presets for it are not all that great. When a person sits down to one for the first time, they will naturally start hitting presets. Most of them, either factory or aftermarket, just aren't all that stunning.
The factory presets are arranged in more of an educational mode so that you can learn how to do different things. Lots of different arpeggios and sequencer stuff. Sound wise, however, many presets just aren't that strong. I think that they would have sold more Andromedas if the presets would have knocked the potential buyers off their feet when they played if for the first time.
I think I would have better loved a Memorymoog, but then I would have to deal with the aging problem. I have kind of sworn off vintage stuff because of the cost and the fact that I can't work on them much (says the guy who just bought another Minimoog---but I can't help myself with those).
My son, who is a WAY better keyboard player than I says that when I croak he will be selling the Andromeda. The Mini, however, he will keep forever (if it still works).
No kidding. I almost sold mine after a year of owning it, even after really trying to go through the manual with it. Suddenly though, it just kind of clicked with me and we became friends.
I still don't use it to a quarter of it's capacity though. I basically work of off presets and then tweak from there.
Seeing MY limitations with it has made me give up the long held ambition of owning a modular synth. I just don't think that I would use it to it's full potential.
I was talking to a buddy of mine who is quite well versed in modulars (and owns a couple) and he was discussing how he patches his Voyager to this and that and how he does all of his pot mapping, etc. It struck me right there that his brain was working on a whole different level than mine. He was thinking in modular mode and I could not.
I do recommend the Andromeda, though, except that for many like me, it will take the average guy a long time to finally realize that he likes the synth. The Andromeda is truly a synth that has to grow on most people. I think that one of the biggest problems with the synth is that the available presets for it are not all that great. When a person sits down to one for the first time, they will naturally start hitting presets. Most of them, either factory or aftermarket, just aren't all that stunning.
The factory presets are arranged in more of an educational mode so that you can learn how to do different things. Lots of different arpeggios and sequencer stuff. Sound wise, however, many presets just aren't that strong. I think that they would have sold more Andromedas if the presets would have knocked the potential buyers off their feet when they played if for the first time.
I think I would have better loved a Memorymoog, but then I would have to deal with the aging problem. I have kind of sworn off vintage stuff because of the cost and the fact that I can't work on them much (says the guy who just bought another Minimoog---but I can't help myself with those).
My son, who is a WAY better keyboard player than I says that when I croak he will be selling the Andromeda. The Mini, however, he will keep forever (if it still works).
Thanks Bob!!
I hear you. Mine has a weird problem: when I tweak certain knobs (not all of them do this) the value stutters, or doesn't move smoothly, i.e. it might go like this:Kevin Lightner wrote:The only thing I'm really disappointed about it is the quality of the controls.
97...98...97,2...97,4...99,1...98,7...before it settles to 100, which is quite frustrating. What could it be? Dust maybe?
Other than that, I absolutely love mine. I have it 6 years now and have programmed the sh1t out of it. Guess what, I am still in awe of what it can do.
I will agree with thewaag that the majority of the presets aren't useful at all but I really believe that if someone is patient and devotes time he will be awarded with amazingly good sounds. It seems to me that despite being a VCO-VCF-VCA synthesizer, it's totally different from say the Minimoog which has the same basic signal path. The complexity and depth of the Andromeda it a blessing and a curse at the same time because people seem to forget that it can be programmed in a very simple and straight-forward way: maybe one VCO, one VCF, simple ADSR envelopes and little or no modulation. It's not necessary to use every single knob and parameter just because it's there.
But like I said, since I have the Andromeda, I am looking for something different. I have heard that the Oberheim Matrix 12 is also a pain in the a$$ to fix once it gets broken and these carbon encoders really worry me. Coming from the Andromeda, I think that the Prophet 5 is weak modulation-wise. It seems to me that I am spoiled by the vast modulation matrix in the Andromeda. Roland JP-8 is a possible choice but like Kevin said it's difficult to fix.
All these have their own sound that is amazing, I would love to have all, but at the moment I can afford only one.
The walls of Jericho were brought down by a Minimoog.
EXACTLY!!ikazlar wrote: The complexity and depth of the Andromeda is a blessing and a curse at the same time.......
Have you thought of something simpler, like a Juno 106 or Juno 60? Nice pads (the chorus is great!), good bass, not frightfully expensive.
Of course you have the Memorymoog. I know a guy who gigs with one with no problems. Awesome synth...just too old for me. Too similar to your Andy?
Thanks Bob!!
I gig with my Memorymoog.
Of course it's been hot-rodded to hold up better under the rigors of the road.
Of course it's been hot-rodded to hold up better under the rigors of the road.
Gear list: '04 Saturn Ion, John Deere X300 tractor, ganged set of seven reel mowers for 3 acres of lawn, herd of sheep for backup lawn mowers, two tiger cats for mouse population control Oh you meant MUSIC gear Oops I hit the 255 character limi
-
latigid on
- Posts: 1579
- Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:47 pm
- Location: Auckland, New Zealand
e) If you can find a Rhodes Chroma you won't be disappointed by the sound.
The programming is rich, but difficult with its one slider. Filters and oscillators can be re-routed in series/parallel/synced/ring modded. Variable pulse width square AND sawtooth waves. Lot's of modulation including staircase. I like the semi-weighted keyboard action too.
Coupled with probably the best vintage synth support site on the web (http://www.rhodeschroma.com) there shouldn't be an issue you can't fix. The CPU can be upgraded and there's a poly-aftertouch upgrade on the way. You can even get around the UI by using a MIDI CC knob controller e.g. Doepfer Drehbank etc.
The programming is rich, but difficult with its one slider. Filters and oscillators can be re-routed in series/parallel/synced/ring modded. Variable pulse width square AND sawtooth waves. Lot's of modulation including staircase. I like the semi-weighted keyboard action too.
Coupled with probably the best vintage synth support site on the web (http://www.rhodeschroma.com) there shouldn't be an issue you can't fix. The CPU can be upgraded and there's a poly-aftertouch upgrade on the way. You can even get around the UI by using a MIDI CC knob controller e.g. Doepfer Drehbank etc.
a. Elka Synthex
b. Oberheim Matrix 12
c. Roland Jupiter 8 (either 12-bit or 14-bit)
d. SCI Prophet 5 (either 3.2 or 3.3)
1. What is the most reliable (doesn't fail and so on)
2. If it does fail, what is the easiest to fix?
OK.. First of all, I really hope you are going to base your decision on more than just the above qualifications. The features of each synth are different. I would go for the interface that works the best and the sound that does the most for you. If you've got the money to buy any of them, then you should be able to get a good tech to put it in good working shape and keep it there.
b. Oberheim Matrix 12
c. Roland Jupiter 8 (either 12-bit or 14-bit)
d. SCI Prophet 5 (either 3.2 or 3.3)
1. What is the most reliable (doesn't fail and so on)
2. If it does fail, what is the easiest to fix?
OK.. First of all, I really hope you are going to base your decision on more than just the above qualifications. The features of each synth are different. I would go for the interface that works the best and the sound that does the most for you. If you've got the money to buy any of them, then you should be able to get a good tech to put it in good working shape and keep it there.
-
peterkadar
- Posts: 327
- Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:04 pm
- Location: Toronto, Canada
I owned an Andromeda, and I loved the sound, feel, and functionality of it. But I had a ton of reliability issues with mine, and they got worse the longer I owned it. I did every kind of reset and OS update imaginable. It eventually turned into a $3k paperweight, so I traded it back to the store and got a V-Synth XT, which is awesome but totally different.
If you're thinking about getting an old polysynth... I haven't had any experience with a lot of the high end classics, but it's great how much you can get out of a polysix or Juno ( which I do own or have owned) .
PM me when you get something and please let me know what your experiences with it are like.
Hope you're well,
PK
If you're thinking about getting an old polysynth... I haven't had any experience with a lot of the high end classics, but it's great how much you can get out of a polysix or Juno ( which I do own or have owned) .
PM me when you get something and please let me know what your experiences with it are like.
Hope you're well,
PK
I was tempted to get a broken Chroma on the 'bay and fix it up. The high bid was almost $1700. They used to be a sleeper synth but people are starting to wake up to them.
They're a hell of a synth with the depth of an Andromeda - if you're up for the task of programming one.
They're a hell of a synth with the depth of an Andromeda - if you're up for the task of programming one.
Gear list: '04 Saturn Ion, John Deere X300 tractor, ganged set of seven reel mowers for 3 acres of lawn, herd of sheep for backup lawn mowers, two tiger cats for mouse population control Oh you meant MUSIC gear Oops I hit the 255 character limi