Manual Losers! (a rant)

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Do you think it's important to keep the manual to your equipment?

Yes!
29
94%
No
2
6%
 
Total votes: 31

wooperman
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Manual Losers! (a rant)

Post by wooperman » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:51 pm

I have a question, and if you are one of these people, please don't be offended, just fix yourself and move on. (you can get the gist in the first paragraph, but please respond - am I alone in this?)
But who are these people in the world who lose manuals?! It is ridiculous that an adult cannot keep an 8 x 11 " object without losing it. There is nothing worse than buying some used equipment and the choad on the other end is like "no manual". Where could it possibly be? Did you throw it away? Did you leave it at your friends house because you were to high to remember it, and then your friend was too high to give it back? (not the weed's fault, btw), or is it that your unit is stolen property?...Or did you just misplace it somewhere in your meaningless life, and it became so burried by the other mundanity that you could never locate it? If so, that is sad - you need a psychological evaluation. However, if you never plan on selling the item again, then it's somewhat excusable, free country. But when you are scrambbling around to sell gear because you are poor, and you don't have the manual, you are costing yourself $20 easily. The manual indicates that the previous owner was at least sort of responsible.
People always want the manual. The manual helps society use the item more effectively. People who choose to not take care of the manual as an extension of the unit itself are bascially watering down society with their own brand of ambivalent stupidity.
How do you buy a 3000 dollar synthesizer and not keep the manual? Any gear for that matter. But still, if you can get 3 grand together, you must have some understanding of value -wait... no...thats not true...maybe some people are just careless fools.
Personally, I keep the boxes, packing materials, manuals, software, All of IT!, becaue I know that that stuff alone could be worth 10-15% of the total price. But also, it just feels better knowing that at anymoment, I might read up on something in the manual and learn a new trick I didn't know before. The whole experience can be passed on to the next buyer, even if it's 20 years later. I have purchased some 30 years old gear before, it had all that stuff - and I felt like I had a new item - and I paid just a little more for it. Mainly because I knew the guy wasnt some heathen who used his gear to collect all the dust and fluids of his mortal life. But even if he did, the box was a sheath that symbolically kept that guys life out of my new (used ) synth.
I don't expect every one to keep the boxes because that can be a large storage issue. But a manual can be kept under a mattress and never touched until you are evicted again.
The absolut worst vioulation, is that gear you see in the pawn shop, that has just been beaten, and left out in the sun, and every knob, button and slider is just held together by singular molecular thread. Paint is knicked off...but even when it's that bad, if the person has been smart enoguh to keep the manual, you can still run the thing through a series of tests and
see how well the unit functions.

Who's with me on this? I welcome the jack-mule who brings that argument that - it's their money, if they want to crap on the manual then it's their right. And while that's constitutionally true - it wont change your idiot status. :P

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Voltor07
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Post by Voltor07 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:58 pm

I keep ALL my manuals...even for my video games. And game systems. And when I buy something used, I print out the PDF for the manuals online if I can find them. I am a manual junkie. I even have manuals for stuff I no longer own, in case someone may need them. :D
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ.

EricK
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Post by EricK » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:35 pm

Im going to laugh when you lose a manual. Since this post, you know its inevitable.

THen you can post your experiences here and backpedal a tiny bit.

Instant Karma's Gonna get you!


:lol:


(Just teasing)

Eric
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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:37 pm

I probably represent the other side- I sell or scan them if I don't need them.
One person who often buys my originals, copies them and offers them on Ebay for decent prices.

Rare service info I will often keep, but scan it when there's a request.
It's not always easy to find things like EML Synkey, Buchla, Polyfusion and some other oddities.
If someone asks, they usually have a real need.
I've been there myself, so it's good to give back.

wooperman
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Post by wooperman » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:47 pm

Erick, it will never happen. I keep dobermans on constant watch of my manuals.
Kevin Lightner doesn't need manuals, he is exempt from this topic's rant. I was talking about mortal synth buyers and sellers. Not omniscient purveyors of CV DNA.

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Voltor07
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Post by Voltor07 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:47 pm

EricK wrote:Im going to laugh when you lose a manual. Since this post, you know its inevitable.

THen you can post your experiences here and backpedal a tiny bit.

Instant Karma's Gonna get you!


:lol:


(Just teasing)

Eric
I HAVE lost manuals. When that happens, I fall into Must Replace mode, where I go to the neighborhood garage sales, and every garage sale, flea market, resale shop, ect. within 60 miles trying to find that manual. I once spent three weeks looking for a Legend of Zelda LTP manual. :lol:
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ.

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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:48 pm

LOL! :mrgreen:

Just Me
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Post by Just Me » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:43 pm

I still have some manuals for things I've long ago sold. But most of the usable ones I've sold on eBay. (Minimmog D, Arp 2600 manual, schematics and patch book, Various Sequential manuals, etc. I've still got the boxes and packaging for things I bought in the 70's. Has really helped over the last 30+ years with the many moves I've made. The stuff survives better in the original boxes. (Although the boxes are getting beat up!)
"Music expresses that which can not be said and on which it is impossible to be silent."

Sidewind
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Post by Sidewind » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:49 pm

Interesting topic, but I think you have some sort of manual/and or paper fetish/obsession. :) I am not sure how the drug references apply here though. Not all musicians like, use or even care about them. Also, some people are simply forgetful without any drugs. Others are also just morons... :)

I just don't think the average person actualy cares too much about a manual. In concept, what you say sounds like it would be easy, but it really depends on the person and their own unique environment. While I generally keep most manuals, I have lost them too. If I owned only a few items, it would be much easier, but I have 100+ different pieces of gear in my studio not too mention all of the software. Having all of these manuals in one location for reference or a library is impractical as it would take too much space. Space that can be used for more gear.

How do they get lost? Easy, you grab one to reference something that you don't remember off-hand and it ends up on your desk with a pile of other papers. Maybe you even take it away from the studio to read later. In the end, most times, it ends up being filed somewhere else. This is of course if it was even handy (laying around) in the first place. Most of the time, they get thrown in a box shortly after purchase and stored away from any gear.

When it comes time to sell, maybe I feel like searching for it, but most of the time, it is simply not worth it. I also have not see a real increase in selling value by having a manual unless it is something really rare. YMMV.

As for the original packaging - I cannot imagine anyone with a significant amount of gear storing all of the original packaging! I would need to rent a storage container to keep it all in! With the exception of a few items, the very first thing that goes is all packaging.

I also may look at my gear differently than most. To me, they are tools to help me create. Sure, some of them I may grow personally attached to, but only because of this. That coupled with the fact that I rarely need to read a manual. I usually just jump right in and turn knobs and see what they do! :)

Good topic, though. I enjoyed it. It is interesting to see how different we all view our gear.

Michael...

ColorForm2113
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Post by ColorForm2113 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:51 pm

i totally agree, i have boxes and manuals and packing foam and what ever else came with all my equipment. i have pdf manuals for things i never even owned, just like to read through to get a better idea what something can do with searching through 143898347591 you tube videos that show the same thing. but since most of my gear is used i dont have to many original manuals.

but as far as losing manuals, if you have a dad like mine, where his idea of "cleaning the house" is grabbing what ever is on the table or counter top and dumping it in the trash, things can get lost REAL easy
My modular so far: Q104, Q106 x2, Q107, Q108, Q109 x2 , Q116, Q118, Q127 w/Q140, Q130, STG Wave Folder, Mixer and Mankato playing with Moog Voyager, VX-351, CP-251, MF-104M x2 ( STEREO!) Volca Beats and Bass, Arturia Beat step

EricK
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Post by EricK » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:54 pm

wooperman wrote:Erick, it will never happen. I keep dobermans on constant watch of my manuals.

Saying it will never happen essentially ensures that it will.
Losing your manual can come in many forms. Garbage, Fire, Garbage fire, Husky wee wee, doggie wee wee, doggie fire... Anything can happen now. Your manual can get blown out of your hands in a gust of ironic hot wind blown by an omnicient Synth God and then youll have to post that you, Wooperman lost an 8x11 object and that you now have an appoinement for a psych eval (Voltor is a psych nurse). Maybe through therapy will you regain your sence of value (more than 20 dollars) and you can slowly chip away at your own idiot status.


In fact Ill be willing to go even farther to say that you are projecting. You probably just sold a synth on ebay and didn't include the manual. You still tried to get 3000 for a synth despite its condition and that you have kept the manual, hoarding its valuable existance for your own personal and sentimental reasons.


(Still just teasing)
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wooperman
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Post by wooperman » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:42 pm

Erick,
Do you have my lost manuals? For real, I have read your posts here, I know you are the type who would prefer the manuals. You just don't want to admit it yet - you are as neurotic as I am. It's hard to be a gear keeper and not know the importance of the manual. I mean, a pair of PA speakers - probably dont need the manual for that, as most important info is printed on back panel.
But, the last 3 things I bought did not come with the manual and the people were like "I lost it" I understand that might just be a catch-all for "i just don't have it". But look at the incredible numbers of used gear that doesn't have the manual.
Hey! it would probably explain why gear forums are always chock full of jack-arses flooding the forums with questions that are easily found in the manual!!

Just Me
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Post by Just Me » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:47 pm

I've got way to many pieces of gear that are complicated and gems of operation would never be found without a manual. Try a PPG without a manual sometime. Or a Mirage or SQ-80. Sure, you can turn 'em on and play the keyboard, but you will not find all the other cool things that can be done by just poking at the buttons. I read manuals.
"Music expresses that which can not be said and on which it is impossible to be silent."

Bryan B
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Post by Bryan B » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:53 pm

I have lost one manual so far, because I sent it with someone who was learning to use that machine.

I have all of my other ones though and they are never leaving my studio unless I sell them with the gear. Lesson learned.

It is great to have the original manual, but really you can find most manuals in PDF form with only a small amount of searching online.
MemoryMoog Plus (with Kenton Midi Upgrade Kit) MF-101 Lowpass Filter, MF-102 Ring Mod, MF-103 Stage Phaser, MF104M Delay, MF-105M MIDI MuRF, MF-107 Freq Box, MF-108M ClusterFlux and CP-251 Control Processor.

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Voltor07
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Post by Voltor07 » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:56 pm

wooperman wrote:It's hard to be a gear keeper and not know the importance of the manual. I mean, a pair of PA speakers - probably dont need the manual for that, as most important info is printed on back panel.
I have the manual for my stereo speakers, and even the replacement drivers. Anyone need manuals for 6-1/2 inch Sony drivers? :wink:
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ.

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