Midi Patchbay

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Christopher J. Boylan
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Midi Patchbay

Post by Christopher J. Boylan » Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:52 am

Guys,
I've been wining about this for years now only to have it fall on deaf ears. I've written to major companies, companies that have come close, companies that are in the thick of it and so being that the product would compliment their line, etc. But all I get back is...

Crickets.

Now, Dr. Bob would most likely really understand the need here and probably push for something - because he was so savy to the needs of musician when it came to performance.

"Get on with it, man!"

Ok... sorry. JL Cooper Midi Patchbay. Digital Music Corp MX-8. These are the only 2 units ever produced (that I know of...) that not only perform the re-routing of midi devices as well as some merging, filtering, AND here's the critical one now... SEND PATCH CHANGE code down the pike of each port to each device. Now, the current problem is that today's midi devices use BANKS to store their patches. But it so doing, the old products mentioned above are no longer effective in midi rigs because the don't pass along this information. And no, the MOTU line does NOT have this feature without having to drag a computer into the system, and only a MAC at that. This needs to be stand alone.

Guys, the ability to stomp on a single button on a device and have it re-route your midi cables, merge 2 outputs into one so you can have 2 different keyboards access the same sound module... AND have it change the patch on ALL of your midi stuff ALL AT ONCE is SO valuable - probably the most important piece of equipment in my rig. Or, at least it was when it did all of this.

There IS a German company producing a unit that does this job effectively complete with touchpad remote control, but it has a whole bunch of whistles and bells that have only driven the price up to just about 3 grand. The company is MidiTemp and the product is the MultiStation MS-X. But it's overkill.

And so here I am... wining and complaining again hoping that you guys will agree with me and stand up and scream, "YES WE NEED THAT!". Moog Music is the ONLY company that I know if that actually LISTENS to it's customers and tries to see to their needs.

Who knows? If enough people express the need, perhaps Moog Music would come out with a nice 8X8 unit that can do the job correctly at a price we can all afford.

Whether you perform live or not, would a device that does all of this at a reasonable price be valuable??

So come on guys... stand up and scream (please!).
Buy cape. Wear cape. Fly.

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Prime NL
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Post by Prime NL » Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:36 am

I am using a Philip Rees 2M Midi merge unit myself (2 IN/2 OUT/2 THRU) and these units are really fantastic and send all Sysex data, MTC & Pitch bend data/summing.

The only problem is that they are also not made anymore but can still be found on e-bay and such.

They also made 5 IN/1 OUT & 9 IN/1 OUT units.

Check also : http://www.philrees.co.uk/products/mergebox.htm

Just Me
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Post by Just Me » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:21 am

What's MIDI?
(My rig is so old and limited in it's MIDI implementation, I can barely fathom what you are asking for!)
All I use MIDI for is to drive the MKS-20 from the JX-3P or the Piano. Or as a clock signal to my recorder. (I don't have a computer in my studio and haven't had MIDI on any computer since I sold my Atari Mega 4 back in the early 90's and it's stand full of Ensoniq machines.)
I'm glad you understand it, but it is black arts to me! I can't even send or recieve patch info. Never figured out how.
"Music expresses that which can not be said and on which it is impossible to be silent."

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CZ Rider
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Post by CZ Rider » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:40 pm

I can't imagine a Moog product doing MIDI like that? There was an old MIDI interface some company made for the C-64 that did most of that, except it only had one MIDI in so there was no merge function. But the idea was you hit a program change on your master keyboard and programed in the seperate patch changes for up to 4 MIDI outs. Can't remember who made that one?
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Oh right! It was the Moog Songproducer! Had 4 programs to choose from, and the one, "MIDI Command" did almost what you seek. I guess back in the day they figured you would just need an 88 key controller and setup splits for the various MIDI outs. The Moog did all of this back in 1984.
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Today you could use a notebook with a USB MIDI interface to get something similar. I never tried, but I thought the program MIDIOX that Moog recommends for Voyager SYSEX transfers could do all of this?
I recently purchased one of those Asus EEE notebooks for around $300USD, and it seems to run many MIDI software progs without any problems, including MIDIOX. Small portable, with a USB MIDI box, almost self contained. I am fooling around with software for the Moog Modular right now. Nothing like having presets on a modular. :lol:
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Voltor07
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GHAA! Too much gear in one place!

Post by Voltor07 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:10 pm

Oh, for crying out loud, CZ. :lol: I think that the hardware suggested would be useful for people who extensively use MIDI. I just ue it for patch sharing and OS updating, and sometimes to control Garage Band. But, to each his own.
Minitaur, CP-251, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Pyramid stereo power amp, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ, dot com modular.

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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:50 pm

I think a point is being missed here.
While I don't know if John is a live player, what he's describing is extremely useful in that particular context.
I don't see a huge need for it in the studio either and of course, a computer can help out there.
But for live players, I completely understand.

What I don't understand is where someone asks for advice or input and a reply has nothing to do with their situation or is just some guess.
I don't comment on things I know little about, so I don't understand why others do.
Maybe "good intentions" or unrelated personal experience outweighs practical help?

If so, here's my 2 cents: make sure you thoroughly brown the beef prior to making the tacos.
Hope this was helpful. ;-)

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Voltor07
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Post by Voltor07 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:36 pm

Kevin Lightner wrote: If so, here's my 2 cents: make sure you thoroughly brown the beef prior to making the tacos.
Hope this was helpful. ;-)
Point well taken on this end. :oops: I agree that a MIDI patchbay would definitely be useful for live applications when working with multiple synths/computers. Just because it doesn't meet my PERSONAL needs, doesn't mean there is no use for it.

So let me clarify my original post. A MIDI patchbay would be a great thing for a lot of people.
Minitaur, CP-251, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Pyramid stereo power amp, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ, dot com modular.

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CZ Rider
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Post by CZ Rider » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:20 pm

Hey, let's not forget the old MIDI master keyboards. Some of those did the seperate patch change out multi MIDI ports with one push of a program button. Some even had an up/down foot switch to change patches on the fly no hands. I have such a device, the Cheetah 5V masterseries. This one has 4 MIDI outs plus an input that could be merged, and a five octave keyboard. I actually shortened one to 2 1/2 oct. (DIY) for a live performance where it was controlling a MAQ 16/3. The keyboard would transpose the sequence, the foot switch would change the sequence, and one of the three wheels was assigned to sequence length. So pulling the wheel down would result in a one note sequence, adding notes up to 16 as it was pushed forward. Not a bad use of MIDI?
So maybe a 5 or 6 octave Moog Master controller with multi MIDI in/outs and a touch pad or joystick, or ribbon controller. Along with those MIDI merge, prog send features? I could use one of those with my poly Voyager. :)
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PS: Tried the MIDIOX. Does everything but merge incoming MIDI. :(

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MC
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Post by MC » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:38 pm

I have two JL Cooper MSB's in my rig and they are essential to my MIDI system. My rigs see stage and studio work, and the MSBs are great for re-patching without moving MIDI cables. When recording I can patch any controller I want without re-wiring - MIDIBoard for weighted action, Hammond for organ action, drum trigger kit, bass pedals, even a guitar-to-MIDI converter. Seriously underrated units.

andrewh
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hey cz

Post by andrewh » Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:56 pm

you have cheetah mkvs, I just got one on ebay- what kind of power supplies do they use? the guy I bought it from seems sketchy- he says he plugged it in and it "sounds good," but he obvsly didn't because it's just a controller, right? and he can't tell me what type of power supply it takes!! alas

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CZ Rider
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Re: hey cz

Post by CZ Rider » Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:48 pm

andrewh wrote:you have cheetah mkvs, I just got one on ebay- what kind of power supplies do they use? the guy I bought it from seems sketchy- he says he plugged it in and it "sounds good," but he obvsly didn't because it's just a controller, right? and he can't tell me what type of power supply it takes!! alas
I have no idea what the proper supply looked like, or a replacement?

The one I have was a sloppy homemade splice to 9V 500 mA wall wart. I ended up putting a standard barrel type jack on the back of the shortened one. Here is a pic of the original back,inside,homemade plug with pinout. Not sure if that is correct, but what I received? I only paid a few bucks for both so I was not worried about it, but they both power up with that configuration.
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DeFrag
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Post by DeFrag » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:52 pm

I've posted some MIDI Mergers here:

http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6537
Little Phatty TE #1023 • Schrittmacher • Walking Stick ribbon • Korg microXL/Electribe MX/KaossPro • Sonnus G2M
MF-101 Filter • MF-102 Ring • MF-103 Phaser • MF-104Z Delay • MF-105 MuRF • MF-107 FreqBox • MF-108M Cluster • Etherwave
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

ArgyleSocker
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Post by ArgyleSocker » Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:14 pm

i want one

LivePsy
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Post by LivePsy » Mon Apr 20, 2009 7:03 pm

To the original poster: I used a Roland A-880 for many years which doesn't send BS and PC itself but I do know how useful it is to repatch midi gear whenever you want. You might find a second hand MPC2500 with 2 midi in and 4 midi out useful for the following reasons:-

* You can set it to send individual PC and BS to each midi out when you change sequences.

* Its a good midi master clock if you set the sequence looping even while it is playing nothing.

* The 2 midi ins are merged and can be echoed to any midi out and channel. And the particular out and channle can be changed very easily on the front panel (change the current track).

Its not exactly full patching but a MPC is a pretty powerful center of a midi setup. Plus you get a free sampler and sequencer thrown in :)

Cheers,
B

LeRoi
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Post by LeRoi » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:47 am

I love my M-Audio 8x8!

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