What if MOOG MUSIC were to produce a new polophonic synth...

[Kevin Lightner]

Apparently something like this has been discussed here, but I can't locate the origin.
Either way, here's my two cents, as rambling as they may be....

How about the "Moog Slice?"
A thin 4 voice analog unit that sits under a Voyager with the same footprint.
Just power in, audio out, Midi in and a volume control.
An update to the Voyager's OS to allow it to control the slice's functionality.
Sort of like "page 2" on an OB-8.
(I fear there's not enough room in the Vger's memory for this, but I can dream...)
Additional slices could be purchased and stacked to expand polyphony.

The downside is that it would share the Vger's keyboard and control, but everything would still be functional in real time via MIDI.
The upside is that Vger owners could achieve polyphonic analog Moog sweetness at a fraction of the price of a full polyphonic synth.

A $10K polyphonic would be a financial boat anchor in my opinion.
It couldn't create enough buzz or sales.
Retailers couldn't afford to purchase stock.
Moog would be forced into a drop-ship scenario or have to provide flooring (stock under credit) provisions.
This alone would cause more friction between Ebay retailers and storefront locations.
If a retailer could afford to purchase one outright, it would likely become a floor demo unit where a much larger ratio of players vs buyers would degrade the condition of their sole instrument.

If Moog made a high priced polysynth today, the most immediate reaction would be people citing the price and what else is available instead.
They'd have options.

I would imagine the sales for the Moog guitar are few and often difficult to make.
But it's not a polysynth.
As a niche instrument, there's nothing comparable on the market.
It's a take it or leave it proposition.
Make a pricey polysynth today and you're begging for trouble.
There's too much out there already to justify the cost of production.
Roland, Korg and Yamaha have remained viable companies because their business models revolve around having wide lines of lower priced instruments.
The money comes from volume sales, not high profit margins per individual sale.

[DIGITAL SCREAMS]

An interesting thread....

I've spoken to a musician recently who's told me that Moog *are* looking into a new polysynth....and that the design is in the advanced stages (i.e. panel layout). In other words, the circuitry/feasibility has already been given the thumbs up.

I'm not going to name drop, but this guy is a respected Moog user and I have no reason to doubt his integrity. There are an aweful lot of well off musicians out there who want a no comprimise analog polysynth. The price point *might* be out of reach for some....but thats not what its about. Its about putting Moog back on top - its about providing a product that people aspire to own and feel passionate about using. I should imagine that practically every major synth act/keyboardist on the planet would want to be seen with one.

Alot of you may think im bullshitting - Id be happy for Moog to officially comment.

DS

[Kevin Lightner]

I'm all for it and wish them good luck.

However....

The price point *might* be out of reach for some....but thats not what its about. Its about putting Moog back on top

What it's all about to you is a great instrument.
What it's all about to Moog is a profitable instrument.
Since some high-priced "do all" instruments have put some companies on the bottom, clarification of "what it's all about" might be good.
I can think of many pricey flagship synth models that either killed the company or severely depleted their resources.

Again, I DO wish Moog good luck if they embark on something polyphonic.
I moreover hope they stay in business doing it.

[latigid on]

If this is the case, then I am both happy and nervous at the same time.

At the moment, I wouldn't buy one as I have the P'08 and A6, with T3s on the way.

Let's look at the "non-budget" analog polysynth: the SE Omega 8:

http://www.studioelectronics.com/products_omega8.php



MSRP $2400 for a duo and roughly double this for an 8-voice.

Notably it is discrete. To the EEs, how much space could be saved on the Voyager if they went SMD?

[Kevin Lightner]

Well the audio path is discrete anyways.

Here's the thing I'm concerned with...

Let's say you've designed something.
You need to estimate the forecasted sales.
Why? Because you need to buy parts, shelves, bins, labor, etc.

With every new product at a manufacturer comes new shelves and bins.
Often new workers.
The place gets smaller.
Manufacturers are often forced to go vertically too and so shelves can end up quite high.
Floorspace is gold.

Sales estimates are therefore hugely important.
One could make a polysynth, price it at $10K and expect to sell 100 of 'em.
$1 mil gross income.
But the same exact synth with a more optimistic (not necessarily realistic) estimate of $5000 and 1000 sales begets $5 million.

These projected sales figures dictate from what quantity line a maker buy their parts at.
Do they buy 1000 widgets or 10,000?
The more you buy, the less each one costs.

When buying parts, one can be presented a price schedule like this:

Widgets each
1- $5
10 - $3
100 - $2.25
1000- $1.95
10000- $1.25
100000- $0.95

If a manufacturer overbuys parts, they pay more to have parts sit on shelves.
If a manufacturer underbuys parts, they pay more to make each individual unit.

With all this said, it takes considerable planning and expertise to launch a new product during a poor economy when there are other, like instruments available.
It's very difficult to forecast projected sales and thus know what quantity to buy parts at.
Moog could release a product priced too high to cover their expenditures.
In this case, only a few end users and parts suppliers win.
Moog gets stuck with mega parts, shelves, debt and few sales.

Designing the synth is one thing.
Figuring out how many you can sell at what price is quite another.

I'm not sure how profitable the Omega has been for SE, nor what their overhead is, so I really can't comment.
Also.. and I know this sounds blasphemous, but it's true: SE has been building synths longer than this incarnation of Moog.
Experience can play a large part in keeping costs down since it increases efficiency and there's a wider knowledge base to draw upon.
For example, how many polyphonic autotune systems is Moog familiar with?
SE has probably encountered many.

[latigid on]

Another failed analog polysynth:



(analog.org)

[EricK]

Ive commented before that Moog hasn't had that great of a history with its attempts at polysynths. Not that the Memory wasn't awesome....when it worked. Not that the Polymoog wasn't awesome...when it worked.

Im not against the idea either...i think they coudl totally pull it off this time. I hope they do. I don't know if I woudl buy one..if I needed one...if I coudl benefit from one, but It would sure be probably the biggest thing at Namm since the new roland keytar lolol.

Eric

[Bryan B]

I need a nice one. I would skip buying a Jupiter 8 (long time dream of mine) to get my hands on a new Poly Moog.

I will cross my fingers hoping the above mentioned source is correct and wait!

My only hope is that they put as many CV Ins/outs as they had on the Voyager and not settle for the limited few that the Little Phatty had.

[dlearyus]

I suggested a multi-voice expander some months ago..in this economy with respect to the numerous valid points you have made Kevin it seems to me would be a reasonably priced product that the "majority" of Moog synth owners would purchase. win-win for everyone. I'm no marketing genius or development guru just seemed like a good idea at the time. plus the fact that im a poor blue collar worker who would love analog polyphany but no way i could ever afford an $8000 poly was hard enuff to scrape up the cash for my LPTE but ive wanted one since i was 13 in 1971 lol ;)

Cheers ;)

DL

[Christopher Winkels]

Ive commented before that Moog hasn't had that great of a history with its attempts at polysynths. Not that the Memory wasn't awesome....when it worked. Not that the Polymoog wasn't awesome...when it worked

For all intents and purposes that was a different company. Different facilities, different staff, different products. There isn't even chain-of-control; the company was essentially non-existent for more than a decade. Is there anyone working for Moog in 2009 that was there in 1979? It's a little like saying there's no way democracy could ever work; the Athenians tried it and look how that fared.

[Voltor07]

Wow, so many excellent points all on one page! In the end, it all comes back to what I've been saying all along. Moog CAN do this! I've not heard of them actually planning a polysynth and having a prototype as DIGITAL SCREAMS suggests, and I keep pretty much in the loop, but anything's possible. A multi-voice expander would definitely be the more economic way to go.

[Voltor07]

BTW: I saw your post on Knob Tweak.

I would also like to get started with some modules and embark on a horrific analog beast. I like the look, sound and knobs of the larger Moog style format (Synthesizers.com, Club of the Knobs, Modcan B, MOTM, MOS) the best. I kind of want to make a custom "everything at arm's length" case, but it would be way easier just to buy one.

The Synthesizers.com entry level synth package is the best way to go. $120 a month gets you a whole half a 22 space modular in one year. And, you can customize the case with all the money you save! You know me and customizing stuff. Have you seen my photo album on Knob Tweak?

[Bryan B]

That sounds pretty awesome. I remember seeing that when I was putting together a web page of my research and modular info a while back. I have to warn you, it is kind of nerdy, but that's me.

http://www.tcsoundscene.com/modular.htm

I have a virtual Synthesizers.com pic with all of my favorites placed in it (3rd pic down after all the links).

[Voltor07]

Quite frankly, Bryan B, I like your Frankenstein the best.

[Bryan B]

I imagine it will actually be much more sinister than that when I am done, if I am ever done with something like that.

My favorite part of the Frankenstein is the checkerboard effect (of mixing the three styles) and the two modules that create a Vocoder (lower center with all the jacks!).