Original Moog concept...keyboards or no...

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jon_kull
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Re: Original Moog concept...keyboards or no...

Post by jon_kull » Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:39 pm

EricK wrote:Im finding myself thinking about going to the voyager all the time but then I just think about the fact that its a keyboard and I get caught up in keyboard mode and when I start thinking about that and my limitations of technique, I don't have the desire to go in there and lift the sheet off the Voyager and turn it on.
You just need a modular. Analog the way it was intended. ;)

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Post by EricK » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:15 pm

Voltor07 wrote:
boosimasjohnson wrote:i wish everyday that my micro did not have a keyboard controller
You could always get it modified...perhaps replace the keys with arcade machine buttons. That would make it look even more like a '70's game console! :lol:
One of these days Voltor, one of these days. lol
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RichardK
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Post by RichardK » Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:28 pm

Voltor07 wrote:
RichardK wrote:http://www.jimmyhotz.com/hotzstore/hotz ... ts_001.htm

(Although those prices... man... how hard would it be to recreate that bit of slightly naff 80s tech. I want one, though. Inevitably).
They look like they might be the originals! :shock: They didn't sell too well and Atari actually lost more money on those than they did on the 5200 game console! I can't believe there's any left at all! :shock: :shock:
I would expect them to be the originals, they're for sale on the inventor's site ;)

See - there's a technology and concept that should be updated. They ran parallel processors apparently. How much cheaper would the processing be now - yet Hotz has done nothing with it. I've no respect for that. The concept was sound, too. I reckon you could knock out a modern one for under a grand with software easily.
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Post by Voltor07 » Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:17 pm

RichardK, while you and I would gladly purchase a beast like this for, say, a grand, I wonder how many others would. Back in the '80's, these things were merely something different. A gimmick, if you will. Who's to say a new one wouldn't be looked upon the same way today that they were back then?

Look at all the comments online about the new Taurus pedals. I wouldn't think twice about dropping 2 grand on these, but for some people, even that's an unreasonable price, and they "settle" for a set of PK-5's and a MoPho. :roll:
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Post by Matt Friedman » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:46 pm

It's funny how Buchla is often held up as Moog's foil. Apart from the fact that they came up with pretty much the same -- or similar -- ideas about voltage controlled synthesis at about the same time, you have to remember that they worked in radically different environments.

Buchla was well within the academic-institutional establishment that pursued the more esoteric experiments in music, while Moog was a businessman. Moog wanted to sell a product; Buchla not so much. Their goals, in many ways, were diametrically opposed. As for interfaces, though, I still want something along the lines of Alvin Lucier's Music for Solo Performer. That'd be way cool. ;)
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Post by EricK » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:42 am

Someone told me that Bob Moog didn't invent control Voltage...that he just applied a mans ideas to his own invention. It was some european man. IM going to find out who that guy was and find out if thats true.

I thought id mention it.

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Post by Voltor07 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:46 am

EricK wrote:Someone told me that Bob Moog didn't invent control Voltage...that he just applied a mans ideas to his own invention. It was some european man. IM going to find out who that guy was and find out if thats true.

I thought id mention it.

Eric
I heard that too, actually. :?
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Post by Matt Friedman » Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:54 am

Hugh Le Caine's Electric Sackbut was, in many ways, the first voltage-controlled synthesizer. Its first version was built in 1945. I doubt whether Moog knew much about it, since as far as I know, Le Caine did not publish his research. In that sense, Moog can be said to have independently invented VC.

I do know that Moog was familiar with the functioning of the RCA Mk I synthesizer -- which was not VC -- as early as 1955.
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Post by Voltor07 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 2:36 pm

Of course, electronic music came before even the Mark I, AND electric sackbut, which was more of a one-off type of thing. Let's not forget the amazing steampunk-like workings of THIS beast... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telharmonium :shock:
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Post by EricK » Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:32 pm

NO it was all about people using the old lightbulbs as oscillators in the late 1800s trying to pipe it in to everywhere there was a line running.
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Post by Voltor07 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:45 pm

Lightbulb oscillators...would that even work? I should try it! :mrgreen:
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Post by Jrayk Roze » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:18 am

Telepathic control is where it's at.

I'd pay $n for that upgrade.
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Post by Matt Friedman » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:55 am

Jrayk Roze wrote:Telepathic control is where it's at.

I'd pay $n for that upgrade.
Been done:

http://emfinstitute.emf.org/exhibits/luciersolo.html
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Post by EricK » Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:41 am

http://120years.net/machines/arc/index.html

William Du Bois Duddell and the "Singing Arc"(1899)
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Before Thomas Alva Edison invented the electric light bulb in the United States, electric street lighting was in widespread use throughout Europe. The predecessor of the filament lightbulb was the Carbon Arc Lamp which generated light by creating a spark between two carbon nodes. The problem with this method of lighting, apart from the dullness of the light and inefficient use of electricity was a constant humming noise from the electric arc. The British physicist and electrical engineer William Duddell was appointed to solve the problem in London in 1899. During his experiments Duddel found that by varying the voltage supplied to the lamps he could create controllable audible frequencies from a resonant circuit caused by the rate of pulsation of exposed electrical arcs.
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Wave forms photographically recorded by Duddell's 'Oscillograph'

(Technically note: a current arc between to electrodes, shunted by a circuit containing a capacitance and inductance would establish an oscillating circuit. The value of the of the capacitance and inductance determines the frequency of oscillation. An arc follows a characteristic, which is the inverse of Ohm's law in that when the current of the arc is increased, the voltage across the electrodes decreases. This characteristic is often called negative resistance. Placing a series LC circuit across the terminals of an arc will initially cause the capacitor to charge, diverting some of the current away from the arc. Given the aforementioned arc characteristics, the potential difference between the arc electrodes will increase, putting the capacitor at an even higher voltage. Once the capacitor reaches full charge the arc current will reverse to discharge the capacitor back into the arc. As the current into the arc increases, the potential difference will fall and the voltage across the capacitor will also fall to a point, which it will begin to charge again. If the circuit resistance is small enough, this process will continue as an oscillation. Duddel found that it was necessary to use a minimum of 1 microfarad of capacitance to obtain oscillations of considerable energy. With this large capacitance, it was not possible to reach high enough frequencies for transmission of Radio-telegraphy.).
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Duddell's 'Oscillograph' audio frequency recorder
This phnenomena had already previously been recorded in 1898 by a Dr. Simon (Frankfurt, Germany). Dr. Simon had noticed that the electric arc could be made to "sing" by means of modulating the voltage to an electric arc supply. Dr. Simon showed that the electric arc made a effective loudspeaker which he demonstrated in public, Duddell may have been aware of these experiments. Dr. Simon's experiments also showed that the modulated arc produced not only sound but a modulated light beam by means of which the German Navy managed to make telephone calls between ships using a modulated arc searchlight and a photosensitive selenium cell.
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A carbon arc street lamp of the type used in Victorian Britain

By attaching a keyboard to the arc lamps he created one of the first electronic instruments and the first electronic instrument that was audible without using the yet to be invented amplifier, loudspeaker or telephone system as an amplifier and speaker. When Duddell exhibited his invention to the London institution of Electrical Engineers it was noticed that arc lamps on the same circuit in other buildings also played music from Duddell's machine this generated speculation that music delivered over the lighting network could be created. Duddell didn't capitalise on his discovery and didn't even file a patent for his instrument.

Duddell toured Britain with his invention which unfortunately never became more than a novelty. It was later recognised that if an antenna was attached to the singing arc and made to 'sing' at radio frequencies rather than audio it could be used a continuous radio wave transmitter. The carbon arc lamp's audio capabilities was also used by Thadeus Cahill during his public demonstrations of his Telharmonium ten years later
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Biographical Information: William du Bois Duddell. UK b 1872William Duddell an electrical engineer in Victorian england was famous for developing a number of electronic instruments notably the "moving coil oscillograph" an early oscillator type device for the photographic monitoring of audio frequency waveforms. Other inventions of Duddell's included the thermo-ammeter, thermo-galvanometer (an instrument for measuring minute currents and potential differences later used for measuring antenna currents and still used in modified form today)and a magnetic standard, which was used for the calibration of ballistic galvanometers.
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Post by Voltor07 » Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:56 am

Matt Friedman, EricK, I want BOTH of those devices! An Oscillograph controlled by brainwaves would be AWESOME! :shock: It would be like Chuck Norris, Mr. T, Kevin Lightner AND undead Bob Moog all in the same room! :twisted:

BTW, EricK, arc lamps and light bulbs are two very different things. Basically, arc lamps are like a cross between a Jacob's ladder and a spark gap, whereas light bulbs have filaments in vacuums. Arc lamps were used in the motion picture industry for years in projectors. :wink:

Here's a similar thing done with MIDI and Tesla coils! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX5V_9s0Gfw
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