just starting out with synths

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Voltor07
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Post by Voltor07 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:12 am

[Post deleted] :wink: :mrgreen: :| :twisted: :roll: :twisted: :cry: :evil: :oops: :P :x :D :) :o :( :shock: :? 8) :lol: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow:

So THAT's what they all look like when put on a post! Cool!
Last edited by Voltor07 on Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ.

mallard
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Post by mallard » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:18 am

Voltor07 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B3UrB_dex8&

About 2:20 into the video. A small sample of a modular sound. :mrgreen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUmXFv7XwAE

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Voltor07
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Post by Voltor07 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:36 am

mallard wrote:
Voltor07 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B3UrB_dex8&

About 2:20 into the video. A small sample of a modular sound. :mrgreen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUmXFv7XwAE
Yours is better. :lol:
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ.

mallard
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Post by mallard » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:40 am

Voltor07 wrote:
mallard wrote:
Voltor07 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B3UrB_dex8&

About 2:20 into the video. A small sample of a modular sound. :mrgreen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUmXFv7XwAE
Yours is better. :lol:
yes but is it digital or analog?

i almost posted kraftwerks robots

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Voltor07
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Post by Voltor07 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:45 am

mallard wrote: yes but is it digital or analog?

i almost posted kraftwerks robots
Robots is a cool tune as well. It's so hard to tell what's analog and what isn't on YouTube because the compression makes EVERYTHING sound digital. I'm guessing it's digital, though. Because 90% of that genre is digital now.
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ.

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Post by Matt Friedman » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:00 am

EricK wrote:Now on the Fantom, I really did dial up some sines and some saws and the filter was just simply, lacking. Even the cutoff knob just didn't do it for me. (Spaceballs reference) I love the synth though and I don't really like the joystick thing ROland has going. I really prefer wheels. Not apples and oranges in my book, more like pyrite vs platinum.
I prefer to see it as an SUV vs. a Ferarri. A Ferarri will beat a Land Rover in a race on pavement any day of the week, but I know who I'd put my money on in Paris-Dakar. I think it's a mistake trying to get a ROMpler like the Fantom to behave like an analog/subtractive synth. But it's a great sampler and its PCM-additive features really are phenomenal when you dive into them. But yeah... the filter's a bit thin and raw.
Mallard wrote:I am an engineering software consultant....far cry from a musician.
Don't sell yourself short. There have been many, many great musicians and composers who have been trained as engineers. Modest Mussorgsky (Pictures at an Exhibition) was an engineer. In terms of more modern electronic music, Halim al Dabh and Iannis Xenakis were also engineers -- the latter was also an architect. Xenakis, in fact, deployed his engineering knowledge in his music, developing a remarkable compositional theory based on stochastic math, and writing an immensely influential book entitled Formalized Music.

A modular might appeal to the engineer's mind, since you are, in effect, constructing sound from the ground up. The truth is that most of us in the synthesis game will probably find our way to modulars. My own plan is to start building one when I have finished my dissertation and finally settle down in one place.

I really do suggest that you start with a non-modular synth, though. You have to walk before you can run.
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Post by Brian G » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:16 pm

They are all tools :). think of it as a carpenter has more than one saw. screw driver and hammer :). Of course it will take time to build a tool box up :). So finding a few multi purpose tools can be he best choice when you start and have maybe one specialty tool in the box. You can get by with what the romplers do, but of cource not as much as a "real" analog synth. Try running your other synths through a MF101 .

the "paddle" on the Rolands, Korgs... take some getting used to. I think i prefer the wheel also, but with some practice you can do some really cool expression things with the paddle/stick. the down side is not being able to leave the modulation at a set point then back to zero like you can with a wheel.

There are a lot of nice VA synths out there and some nice virtual synths. They may not be as good as the "real deal" vbut will allow you to get pretty darn close. I don 't own a copy but the Modular V software will let you explore a Modular moog for a very affordable price.

A few years ago I had my Model D in for some repair work, my tech has a large collection of virtual synths, he also has a very nice collection of analog and digital :) . We played with the model D against on of the soft synths ( forget which now) and it was very close. the biggest difference was in the low end. the D had a fuller more organic low end then the Soft Synth. But it was close.

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Post by mallard » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:22 pm

what is a "patch"? is it like a group of settings that are saved to create a specific sound? is this what people import?

for example, i fiddle with knobs and settings and find something that sounds really nice....do i save it as a patch that other people can upload?

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Post by Voltor07 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:27 pm

mallard wrote:what is a "patch"? is it like a group of settings that are saved to create a specific sound? is this what people import?

for example, i fiddle with knobs and settings and find something that sounds really nice....do i save it as a patch that other people can upload?
The term patch goes back to the modular days when you had patch cables that were used to create sound patterns, or patches. Now, patches can be saved as MIDI data, and yes, can be shared. The preprogrammed settings in a modern Moog synth, or other synth for that matter, are commonly referred to as patches. :mrgreen: I think when I get my modular I'll name it Patches. :lol:
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ.

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Post by EricK » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:31 pm

Yeah a modular synth is very much like an SLR in a whole darkroom. You have your enlargers, trays, chemicals papers and different techniques to create different portraits, whereas something like the Voyager would be like one of those point and click cameras with a printer dock.

Have you thought about getting one of those inexpensive microcassette recorders so you can hum your ideas into them. I have one of those and I use it ocassionally. I come up with my best Ideas when it is at the most inopportune times.

If you are thinking about stimulating neural pathways, I hope this isnt some effort to stave off dementia lol. THey say that picking up new skills is the way to do exactly that though. But thinking about the prices of modular synths, some would say your dementia is already setting in lol.


WHatever you end up doing Im sure it will provide you with years of those endorphine kicks. Synthesis is very much like that. Just when you think you really know some stuff about synthesis (especially the Moog stuff) you realize that theres dualing functions so some of the Modules and you have to scratch your head and hit the books again.


THe best resources for learning about synthesis I would advise you to go to Moogarchives.com and read that information. Learn about the history of Moog synths and youll gravitate to the modular synths. Then Id make a post on here when you are ready about some vintage synth manual resources like the Thom Rhea manuals written for some of the vintage synths (Mini Micro, Etc) and those are valuable resources.

Be sure and take some pics f your gear when you get ready!

Eric
Last edited by EricK on Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by EricK » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:38 pm

A patch is essentially a routing.

If you have an oscillator runnning through a filter, which is running out to a VCA then thats a patch.

If you have a distortion pedal on a guitar running to a chorus pedal running to a wah running to a volume running to your amp, thats a patch.

DIgitally, you can have the same things but architectually they are different. If you turn the reverb or chorus on, thats essentially a digital patch.

With something like the MiniMoog Model D, most of the main modules are already hardwired together, you just change the settings.

Like on a modular synth, nothing is connected together. You have to connect the keyboard and then connect the modules together for a sound. THats called a patch. You want a different sound you have to change most of the patch cables.

As far as sharing them, you can get software that will let you export your saved patches on the voyager or Phatty to a computer whicn can then be sent wherever.

Eric
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mallard
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Post by mallard » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:56 pm

if a moog voyager and lil fatty are complete units (as opposed to modular synths like .com) then whats the need for a CP-251 and other "moogerfoogers"? do they provide extra signals to be tinkered with in addition to the ones that are built in?

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Post by Voltor07 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:24 pm

Yes, mallard. That's exactly right. Watch some of my YouTube videos for examples of sounds that can be gotten from the LP and 'Foogers. There are other vids from much more talented people as well. :mrgreen:
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ.

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Post by EricK » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:16 pm

Basically what I meant by a complete unit is one that is totally self sufficient. A regular average joe might be totally satisfied with the Voyager, the PHatty< the Fantom AS IS. The Voyager is very well rounded and has reached a level of perfection that I doubt that Moog themselves can even improve upon.

So we call them complete because there are consumers of these products that don't have the slightest usage whatsoever for. And the Voyager by itself is simply a beast.

BUT because the Voyager has a slew of CV inputs, because analog synths are voltage controlled, there is SO MUCH MORE that can be done beyond the end result of factory specs. And because the MoogerFoogers are the same way, they aren't just mere effects processors. This is what the Vx351 and the Cp251 expans on.

WHen you start dealing with modular synthesis, you realize that you need an infinite amount of modules. This is why there are people out there with a huge system from dotcom and a Moog 55. Basically with MOdular stuff, the sky is just the beginning.

Eric
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Post by Voltor07 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:22 pm

I am quite satisfied with my LP, but will be MORE satisfied with a FreqBox, 104z, set of Taurus III's, and a dot com modular or two. :lol: All in due time, I suppose. :wink:
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ.

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