just starting out with synths

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DeFrag
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Post by DeFrag » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:27 pm

Matt Friedman wrote:None of us would be here if the Moog sound didn't give us all a warm and vibratey feeling in the guttie-wuts.
Nice.. slippin' in the Clockwork Orange reference. :wink:
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Matt Friedman
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Post by Matt Friedman » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:41 pm

EricK wrote:Basically the Fantoms synth engine was absolutely weak in comparison to the Voyager and I found that I needed my plethora of knobs.
Apple and oranges. The Voyager's piano patch just doesn't impress me at all. ;)


DeFrag wrote:Nice.. slippin' in the Clockwork Orange reference. Wink
It seemed appropriate. And I knew my Moogy droogs would pony it.
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Voltor07
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Post by Voltor07 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:19 pm

I like my overdrive button on the Little Phatty. The Voyager sadly lacks this feature, but has 50 others that take its place. :mrgreen:
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ.

mallard
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Post by mallard » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:46 pm

Matt Friedman wrote:
-- and what kind of sound you are looking for.
sounds that no human existing in this dimension has heard before
Matt Friedman wrote: And, do you want to buy a new instrument, or a used instrument?
definately new. I understand what prices im looking at.....around 3500 is doable...10k isnt.
Matt Friedman wrote: Moogs do sound unique -- as unique as an ARP or a Dave Smith or a Roland. I love the sound, which is why I have one. If you love the sound, then it could be the one for you.
I dont play guitar....but if you asked me to name a great guitar, the first thing I would think is Gibson Les Paul.

to me, a Moog is the same way. Ask me what great synthesizer to use in a composition.....well duh, a moog. That doesnt mean I know squat about them.....but looking at so many album covers listing instruments a moog is like a hammond, rhodes or a mellotron.

Brian G
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Post by Brian G » Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:10 pm

:) That being the case pick up a Voyager to start then add the CP251, VK 351 and some MoogerFoogers as you advance :). OR :) Get a Little Phatty and a few MoogerFoogers to start. :):) I'd still think about a Prophet 08 to go along with what ever Moog you chose :).

Main thing HAVE FUN ! :)

Matt Friedman
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Post by Matt Friedman » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:20 pm

Well, assuming you go Moog, and of course you will, the options are endless. Some -- but certainly not all -- options might include...

Option 1:
Moog Minimoog Voyager: $3200.00
USB/Audio Interface: $150
Stand: $30
Cables: $15
Sennheiser HD-280 headphones: $100
TOTAL: $3495

Option 2:
Moog Little Phatty: $1285
DSI Prophet 08: $2000
USB Mixer: $150
2-tier stand: $50
Cables: $45
Sennheiser HD-280 headphones: $100
TOTAL: $3610

Option 3:
Moog Little Phatty: $1285
Fantom X6 Workstation: $1500
USB Mixer: $150
2-tier stand: $50
Cables: $45
Sennheiser HD-280 headphones: $100
Studio Monitors: $200
TOTAL: $3330


Option 4:
Moog Minimoog Voyager OS: $2400
Yamaha MM8 workstation: $900
USB Mixer: $150
2-tier stand: $50
Cables: $45
Sennheiser HD-280 headphones: $100
TOTAL: $3645

And on and on... you can mix'n match. As much as I like analog polysynths like the DSI, I personally would go with #3 It is similar to what I have right now, and the Fantoms are the class of the ROMpler world. It gives you some very good acoustic sounds, a sequencer and a sampler, and excellent onboard effects. With a RAM upgrade, you can even use it as a rudimentary DAW with its onboard effects. And, I think good studio monitors are a must. IMO mixer + monitors is a much better solution than an amp for a keyboard rig.

And I'm assuming you'll want to record. Most USB/Audio interfaces and USB mixers come bundled with DAW software.

Anyway... you can mix'n'match. These are just some ideas to show you hpw you can work with your budget.
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Matt Friedman
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Post by Matt Friedman » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:53 pm

Oh... and I think that Les Pauls are a bit overpraised. Now an ES-335... now we're talking...
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mallard
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Post by mallard » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:18 am

what about the synth.com equipment? it looks interesting...although I have no idea what most of it means. is adding that kind of stuff along with a "complete" unit like a voyager or a fantom redundant?

Matt Friedman
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Post by Matt Friedman » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:49 am

Synthesizers.com sells modules and complete modular synths. I've never played one -- the only modular experience I have is a couple of hours on an ARP 2600 many years ago -- but they seem to be very well thought of. Modulars are very interesting and flexible instruments. They typically do not have a hard-wired signal or control path, so you construct those by patching modules together in whatever combination strikes your fancy. That means that you can construct all kinds of weird and wonderful sounds. They are, however, extremely complex instruments. You don't just strike a key and hear a sound, you have to patch modules together -- with 1/4" patch cords - before it will make a sound, and it does not have patch [or, in Moogspeak, preset] memory, since each sound is a physical connection. That means that modulars have a fairly steep learning curve [I spent an hour making farting noises... unsatisfying farting noises... before I could get anything useable].

My opinion, which others might not share, is that if you're just starting out, you should probably start with something like a Little Phatty or a Voyager. The Phatty makes it increadibly easy to make really cool sounds, and is probably one of the best synths to learn subtractive synthesis on [the Roland SH-201 is also a good synth to learn on, but it doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the Phatty, and it's hobbled by minimal user patch memory -- 32 locations -- and a really flimsy build].

If you're interested in modulars, my suggestion is get something like the Phatty first and invest in a modular in a ywar or so. Just my opinion, YMMV.
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mallard
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Post by mallard » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:01 am

Matt Friedman wrote:Synthesizers.com sells modules and complete modular synths. I've never played one -- the only modular experience I have is a couple of hours on an ARP 2600 many years ago -- but they seem to be very well thought of. Modulars are very interesting and flexible instruments. They typically do not have a hard-wired signal or control path, so you construct those by patching modules together in whatever combination strikes your fancy. That means that you can construct all kinds of weird and wonderful sounds. They are, however, extremely complex instruments. You don't just strike a key and hear a sound, you have to patch modules together -- with 1/4" patch cords - before it will make a sound, and it does not have patch [or, in Moogspeak, preset] memory, since each sound is a physical connection. That means that modulars have a fairly steep learning curve [I spent an hour making farting noises... unsatisfying farting noises... before I could get anything useable].

My opinion, which others might not share, is that if you're just starting out, you should probably start with something like a Little Phatty or a Voyager. The Phatty makes it increadibly easy to make really cool sounds, and is probably one of the best synths to learn subtractive synthesis on [the Roland SH-201 is also a good synth to learn on, but it doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the Phatty, and it's hobbled by minimal user patch memory -- 32 locations -- and a really flimsy build].

If you're interested in modulars, my suggestion is get something like the Phatty first and invest in a modular in a ywar or so. Just my opinion, YMMV.
Thanks....when looking at their equipment it seemed that it might be quite tedious to make changes to a sound (like an old phone switchboard operator). But with a moog....can I concoct just as unusual sounds? if i do find something I want to use, can I quickly save it to recall later?

EricK
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Post by EricK » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:08 am

Welly welly welly welly welly welly welly welly well,
Get some patch cords and give them a little bit of the in out in out.

Matt,
Now on the Fantom, I really did dial up some sines and some saws and the filter was just simply, lacking. Even the cutoff knob just didn't do it for me. (Spaceballs reference) I love the synth though and I don't really like the joystick thing ROland has going. I really prefer wheels. Not apples and oranges in my book, more like pyrite vs platinum.

Mallard,
If you are looking for sounds that noone has heard before then I hate to tell you this but All roads lead to modular.
Theres absolutely nothing wrong with dotcom stuff. Now let me say this. You can start out on a modular synth and thats probably one of the hardest ways to learn, but once you do, youll look at a complete synth like the voyager as being severely limited. Modular synthesis requires several patchcords just to get a sound.
Example:
Keyboard gate output to Env Gen Input
Keyboard pitch output to Oscillator Freq Input
Oscillator Wave Output to Filter Audio Input.
Envelope Generator output to VCA INput
VCA Output to Speaker INput.

lol

But learning on a modular synth has the highest learning curve of all, it also will produce sounds that noone has ever done before provided that you have the modules to do it and the patchcords. THese are also very difficult to GIG with as they are usually huge monoloths they are generally the most expensive. But once you do get the hang of modular synthesis, every other synth in the world will be like luscious cream cheese on a hot bagel in the winter monday workday with a tall steaming hot cup of coffee. (Unless you are lactose intolerant, in which case it would just be really easy)


Image
Studio 22
2895.00 (I think)

Well also, there were so many crappy records out there trying to cash in on the Moog phenom at the time. Lots of great records too.

Look I think heres a better offer

MiniMoog Voyager Select with Vx351 -$2999 at novamusik.com
get some walmart headphones for 20 dollars and they have good bass response.



Basically you need to get your butt to a music store and try a lot of synths. If you go with a fantom like the X6, keep in mind that it doesn't have weighted keys. If you are interested in PIANO then you want some counterbalanced keys. I kind of think that is important for building finger dexterity and for keeping it in the tradition of piano heritage.

WHatever you do, post some pictures!

Sorry I coudln't get together a better comprehensive post, its my anniversary and I don't want to neglect my wife lol.

Eric




Go to
moogarchives.com

Click on instruments, modules, and then go through there and reac the Functional Application and the Musical Application of the various modules
902
904a
921
911
Last edited by EricK on Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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DeFrag
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Post by DeFrag » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:10 am

AHAHahhaa.. posting on his anniversary!

Where DOES his passions lie? :wink:
Little Phatty TE #1023 • Schrittmacher • Walking Stick ribbon • Korg microXL/Electribe MX/KaossPro • Sonnus G2M
MF-101 Filter • MF-102 Ring • MF-103 Phaser • MF-104Z Delay • MF-105 MuRF • MF-107 FreqBox • MF-108M Cluster • Etherwave
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

EricK
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Post by EricK » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:14 am

lolol

don't go there lol :lol:

I think my wife wants to destroy the Moog.

lol

Eric
Support the Bob Moog Foundation:
https://moogfoundation.org/do-something-2/donate/

I think I hear the mothership coming.

mallard
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Post by mallard » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:30 am

EricK wrote:Welly welly welly welly welly welly welly welly well,
Get some patch cords and give them a little bit of the in out in out.

Matt,
Now on the Fantom, I really did dial up some sines and some saws and the filter was just simply, lacking. Even the cutoff knob just didn't do it for me. (Spaceballs reference) I love the synth though and I don't really like the joystick thing ROland has going. I really prefer wheels. Not apples and oranges in my book, more like pyrite vs platinum.

Mallard,
If you are looking for sounds that noone has heard before then I hate to tell you this but All roads lead to modular.
Theres absolutely nothing wrong with dotcom stuff. Now let me say this. You can start out on a modular synth and thats probably one of the hardest ways to learn, but once you do, youll look at a complete synth like the voyager as being severely limited. Modular synthesis requires several patchcords just to get a sound.
Example:
Keyboard gate output to Env Gen Input
Keyboard pitch output to Oscillator Freq Input
Oscillator Wave Output to Filter Audio Input.
Envelope Generator output to VCA INput
VCA Output to Speaker INput.

lol

But learning on a modular synth has the highest learning curve of all, it also will produce sounds that noone has ever done before provided that you have the modules to do it and the patchcords. THese are also very difficult to GIG with as they are usually huge monoloths they are generally the most expensive. But once you do get the hang of modular synthesis, every other synth in the world will be like luscious cream cheese on a hot bagel in the winter monday workday with a tall steaming hot cup of coffee. (Unless you are lactose intolerant, in which case it would just be really easy)


Image
Studio 22
2895.00 (I think)

Well also, there were so many crappy records out there trying to cash in on the Moog phenom at the time. Lots of great records too.

Look I think heres a better offer

MiniMoog Voyager Select with Vx351 -$2999 at novamusik.com
get some walmart headphones for 20 dollars and they have good bass response.



Basically you need to get your butt to a music store and try a lot of synths. If you go with a fantom like the X6, keep in mind that it doesn't have weighted keys. If you are interested in PIANO then you want some counterbalanced keys. I kind of think that is important for building finger dexterity and for keeping it in the tradition of piano heritage.

WHatever you do, post some pictures!

Sorry I coudln't get together a better comprehensive post, its my anniversary and I don't want to neglect my wife lol.

Eric




Go to
moogarchives.com

Click on instruments, modules, and then go through there and reac the Functional Application and the Musical Application of the various modules
902
904a
921
911
Thanks for your input Erick, I surmised as such about the modular just looking at them. Since the last "magic" i uncovered was photography.....modular seems to be like black&white/film/chemicals/paper approach while complete units are more like digital....less work but still great results but in the end you wont be able to get the most subtle nuances about it.

when it comes to piano sound, I wish I could get an acoustic because I have yet to feel a digital that is the same. however, my living area precludes me getting one so a digital stage is what I'll do. I already found something with an acceptable action/sound/price (a roland FP7) but for synth sound i want to keep separate.

oh, and another thing....im absolutely brain dead when it comes to music. I couldnt compose or create a new tune if you had a gun to my head. (I do however wake up with some annoying song ive never heard before but ill leave dreams out of it) This is why I took on piano. Ive always liked the sound and Ive never known how to read music or play one. At 43 this is an exercise to stimulate neural pathways. how many times have you undertaken a task and when you succeed and get a little better you feel an endorphin kick off inside your brain somewhere and thought "hey, thats cool! im making progress". thats what ive been going through with learning piano so far. I am an engineering software consultant....far cry from a musician.

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Voltor07
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Post by Voltor07 » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:09 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B3UrB_dex8&

About 2:20 into the video. A small sample of a modular sound. :mrgreen:
Sub 37 #000068, Minitaur, CP-251, MF-102&103, EHX #1 Echo, EHX Space Drums/Crash Pads, QSC GX-3, Miracle Pianos, Walking Stick ribbon controller, Synthutron.com, 1983 Hammond organ.

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