minimoog voyger or d

Relayer - 1974 · Post by **Relayer - 1974** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:36 pm

Hi,
I bought the moog little phatty tribute about a year ago now and it is fantastic. But recently I have been trying to achieve similar sounds to Rick Wakeman and have found that I really need some more "phatness" and a brighter top end on my sawtooth patches.

I was looking at the voyager or the mini D and I was wondering if anyone would be able to give me their opinions.

Firstly, i play in a rock band, so MIDI does not matter to me as I will actually be playing the moog.

Second, Presets are not really an Issue either as I find that I rarely use them on the LP.

So for me, it basically comes down to reliability of the voyager vs the old brighter sound of the mini d. I also don’t want to get home

I have played the voyager many times, never been able to compare it to my LP, and as i live in Australia, I haven’t been able to find any places or second hand synth shops that have a mini d, so I have never played one.

I have been thinking about it for quite a few months now but I just have not been able to decide. Every time I see a pro of one I also see a pro of the other.

If you have any opinions, they will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Rob

synthetic · Post by **synthetic** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:29 pm

The Voyager oscillators are the same as the LP, as far as I know. Does it have an insert between the mixer and filter like the Voyager? Check moogmusic/members in the Voyager sound files for the Exciter demo, that might give you the sound you're looking for.

Although, the easy answer to sounding like Wakeman is to buy a mini D. I think he switched his stage setup from Voyager back to mini Ds. There are plusses and minuses to both and I doubt you'll regret either.

Post some sound files playing Yes on the Phatty if you have them.

GregAE · Post by **GregAE** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:21 am

synthetic wrote:The Voyager oscillators are the same as the LP, as far as I know. Does it have an insert between the mixer and filter like the Voyager? Check moogmusic/members in the Voyager sound files for the Exciter demo, that might give you the sound you're looking for.

An Aural Exciter might approximate the top end sizzle of a 'D' for you - it's certainly worth exploring. As an example, you can hear a few samples of what an exciter can do for a Voyager here:

https://www.moogmusic.com/members/?sect ... ile_id=152

The LP does not have an insert point between the mixer and filter like the Voyager, but it isn't necessary to use an exciter pedal. Just connect the exciter to the LP's output like any other pedal.

As for increasing the phatness (and the sound creation potential), there's no substitute for having a third oscillator in the mix, but you're going to pay for it. There are ways to fatten up any sound using chorus and pitch shifting techniques, and well as applying overdrive and/or using different amps (try an amp simulator). While this may not get you the sound you're looking for, it's probably worth considering before you drop some hefty $ on a new synth.

- G

Kevin Lightner · Post by **Kevin Lightner** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:51 am

So for me, it basically comes down to reliability of the voyager vs the old brighter sound of the mini d.

I might not have read this correctly, but I'd think the Vger would be a lot more reliable than a 30+ year old model D, especially for live gigging.

thewaag · Post by **thewaag** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:44 pm

Kevin Lightner wrote:
So for me, it basically comes down to reliability of the voyager vs the old brighter sound of the mini d.
I might not have read this correctly, but I'd think the Vger would be a lot more reliable than a 30+ year old model D, especially for live gigging.

I agree with Kevin here. For gigging, the Voyager is the obvious choice. It is probably close enough to the Mini D for live performance.

For that true "Wakeman sound", however, the Mini D is the choice. Nothing sounds like it. For the record, however, Nick Montoya gigs with both a Mini D and a Voyager, with no problems on the Mini to my knowledge. His Mini was refurbished by Kevin Lightner, however.

MC · Post by MC » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:51 pm

Even if it is properly restored, there is still plenty to go wrong with a 30 year old model D on the road.

Unless you carry a dedicated tech with you, the Voyager is the better choice and will mimic the model D quite well.

redeyeflight · Post by **redeyeflight** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:17 pm

i think part of that overdriven wakeman/old skool model d sound involves running your synth, be it a voyager or a model d or a little phatty, through a distorted tube amp, or at the very least a good distortion/overdrive pedal. I would suggest keeping that little phatty and investing some money in a decent tube amp...it's gonna help the top end a lot cause you have the extra eq on the amp and it's going to give the newer moogs a much more "vintage" or "dirty" sound. I've used my voyager through a 1962 fender brownface princeton amp (only 12 watts-perfect for overdriven sounds) and it really works wonders for the lead sounds. Having said that I wouldn't recommend using the bass patches on an amp that small for fear of blowing out the speaker. I'd say a fender twin or super reverb reissue with a good distortion pedal like the fulltone OCD or an analogman modded tubescreamer will get you at least 95% of the way to getting a more vintage sound and certainly for live use it would likely solve all your problems.

latigid on · Post by **latigid on** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:59 pm

There's always the Feedback Loop trip, no? Did Wakeman use this?

THM · Post by **THM** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:17 am

latigid on wrote:There's always the Feedback Loop trip, no? Did Wakeman use this?

You bet - to mention a few: in a lot of ELP live tracks and you'll definitely here Keith in action with a highly distorted feedback loop.
I heard a known live version of e.g. "Great Gates of Kiev" (from a live version of "Pictures At An Exhibition") or also in some live versions of the "Peter Gunn Theme".

THM · Post by **THM** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:20 am

Sorry - I was talking about Keith Emerson hereabove.

But it would surprise me if Wakeman didn't use this trick either...

Relayer - 1974 · Post by **Relayer - 1974** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:34 am

Wow - thanks guys for all of your replies.
I wasnt going to trade in my phatty but just buy another keyboard to add to my rig, but ill have to look into this whole amp thing.

Thanks guys you have been a great help and given me alot to think about.
Ill let u know when i decide which way i am going to go.

Thanks

Rob

thewaag · Post by **thewaag** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:34 pm

I have nothing to go by except my ear, but I don't believe that Rick Wakeman used much overdrive or feedback loop. I can mimic all of his standard sounds on my Mini D without such tricks. Wakeman's sound was more about shimmering mids and highs (except for the awesome low octave stuff on Merlin) rather than overdrive....

dave500 · Post by **dave500** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 6:16 pm

thewaag wrote:I have nothing to go by except my ear, but I don't believe that Rick Wakeman used much overdrive or feedback loop. I can mimic all of his standard sounds on my Mini D without such tricks. Wakeman's sound was more about shimmering mids and highs (except for the awesome low octave stuff on Merlin) rather than overdrive....

Let us hear some of your Wakeman and Mini D not everyone can hear it anymore.

Modularfan · Post by **Modularfan** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:18 am

Relayer - 1974 wrote:Wow - thanks guys for all of your replies.
I wasnt going to trade in my phatty but just buy another keyboard to add to my rig, but ill have to look into this whole amp thing.

What about a CreamWare Minimax ASB? It's got all the features of the Model 'D', including all the knobs on a familiar panel layout, is reasonably priced ($799) and sounds close enough to the real thing to fool even the most die-hard analog fan.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=709972

And it's polyphonic, too (12 voices). Might be killer combined with the LP.

- MF

synthetic · Post by **synthetic** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:39 pm

Rick tours with both a vintage Mini d and a Voyager:

http://rwcc.com/equipment.asp

I'm sure they tour with a spare mini or two.