Moog/New Software Products MESSE

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Moog/New Software Products MESSE

Post by goldphinga » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:24 am

From the Sonic State Website...

MESSE07: Moog Teams Up With Sample Specialists
Moog, IK Multimedia and Sonic Reality join forces for sample-based products focused on vintage analog synths 28-Mar-07
MESSE07: Moog Teams Up With Sample Specialists

IK Multimedia and Sonic Reality have announced at Messe a strategic alliance with Moog Music Inc to bring out sample-based products focused on legendary Moog synthesizer sounds. In an effort to present the flavors of Moog synthesizer history as playable sounds, Sonic Reality has sampled the entire range of vintage Moog synthesizers and together with IK Multimedia, they have created SampleMoog, the first comprehensive collection of Moog samples available as a plug-in powered by SampleTank.

Dave Kerzner, CEO of Sonic Reality told us, "While there are already some Moog-themed plug-ins out there, we wanted to capture the wider sonic flavors that come from the entire range of Moog synthesizers put out over the years including vintage Polymoogs, Memorymoogs and Taurus Pedals as well as the latest Minimoog Voyager and other synths that have never been modeled. We're honored to be doing this in cooperation with Moog Music Inc. and the Moog Foundation to pay homage to the legendary Bob Moog and present these timeless sounds in software for anyone to use in their music."

Mike Adams, CEO of Moog Music Inc. added, "Moog is very pleased to support Sonic Reality and IK Multimedia, the world leaders in sample-based software synthesis, in developing these samples that cover the history of Moog from Bob's original modular systems thru today's Minimoog Voyager. The quality of these samples is absolutely the best."

IK Multimedia say that the goal of these sample-based Moog-themed products is to broaden the awareness of the wonderful sounds of Moog synthesizer history and the accomplishments of Bob Moog as well as bringing musicians an affordable source of some of the boldest, phat, punchy, liquid and cutting synth sounds you can find anywhere. SampleMoog is one diverse synth plug-in to use in any style of music from electronic music to rock, hip hop, R&B, pop, progressive, avant garde experimental and more.

Bob Moog's daughter, Michelle, director of the Bob Moog Memorial Foundation for Electronic Music had this to say about the project: "Dad was committed to creating tools that allowed musicians to customize their instrument's sounds and therefore give their creativity a musical voice; this product is an extension of that in the digital world. The Bob Moog Foundation is honored to be part of this tribute to the sounds and legacy of Bob Moog and is deeply grateful to Sonic Reality and IK Multimedia for their support."

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Post by Sweep » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:49 am

A lot depends on what they've actually done.

Sampling Moogs can be very creative. I've sampled mine, along with a lot of other synths and used the samples as waveforms to create new sounds. I was actually working on a collection of Moog/EMS hybrid sounds before reading this. The results can be amazing - very dynamic and complex sounds of a kind I've never heard before.

But it's the old problem with sampling: used creatively it can open up all sorts of possibilities for original sound creation. But if it's just for getting Moog samples with limited manipulation of the sample, for people who paste sounds together and think that's music, then in my view that's a waste of time.

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Post by goldphinga » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:36 am

Moog Gear: Voyager AE,LP Stage 2+CV outs (Blue LED's/Wheels, MF104SD, MF101 Filter, MF103 Phaser, Source, Memorymoog+, Minitaur.

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Post by museslave » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:16 am

Hey, super.

As many of us discovered in the advent of cheap sampling, sampling a synthesizer is almost pointless as that the sampling process totally prevents the use of the synthesizer in a way that features the strength of the synthesizer.

I think suggesting that there is a Moog legacy that could be in any way connected with sampling is COMPLETELY disingenuous.

The main motivation for Moog to go in this direction is money... there is a lot of money to be made with the Moog name... and those purchasing these products could not care less about a legacy of actual physical instruments. Moog sample software? People are going to buy it up like mad because of the Moog name and some totally mislead notion that the strengths of Moog could in ANY WAY be applied to software. This is pure ugly marketing.

I can just hear all the 13 year olds saying, "Oh, I play a Moog."

I know someone's going to say "oh, they have a right to do whatever they want in the business world," and "Moog has such a high quality paradigm that their software related products will be just as good!" "This is just diversification, and what's wrong with that?" But what this means is: Moog will make far more money in products that do not have the high overhead that analog synths do, and they will eventually move in that direction. Why on EARTH would you sit around trying to make things out of expensive wood when there are millions to be made requiring no physical resources?

This is a sellout, pure and simple... and exactly what happened to every analog synth manufacturer in the 80s. Digital is cheap, and if your customers are willing to give you more money for it, why waste time building a quality product that is expensive and only appeals to few?

The worst part is the propoganda built right into that release... patently drawing a connection between the Moog synthesizer and samples of the Moog synthesizer, as if they are essentially the same thing. If such a thing is even possible, why would ANYONE spend $3000 on what they will likely be able to have for $100? Why would they undercut their own prestige? Like I said... they'll make more money with less overhead.

Okay, Bob's been in the grave long enough, let's make some real cash.

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Post by MarkM » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:36 am

I don't think this is anything to get worked up over. The sampling of synths has been going on for years, and it has not been damaging to the industry. If Moog can profit and become stronger, then that's a good thing. If a 13 year old says they are playing a Moog when all they are doing is playing a sample, big deal. Other synth manufacturers have been simulating the Moog sound for years, but as we all know, it is still not even close in owning and playing the real thing. In fact, playing a Moog sample just might entice someone to purchase a real Moog instrument.
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:26 am

I hope Mr Kerzner (a past client) doesn't take offense at this, but I just see another product and co-branding. Sorry.

One reason analog and sampling are still too different camps is because sampling hasn''t crossed over well enough to eliminate analog.
It might *sound* like that particular synth for a second, but the more one plays the real instrument vs the emulation or sample, all the small details become apparent.

For example, take a Minimoog.
Being a single trigger instrument, how does one capture an envelope dying away while one plays more notes in legato?
Or the linear type glide of a Mini?
(btw, measure your maximum up and down glides times- I bet they're different for each direction.)

I understand a musician popping up a "Moog bass" sound and having a great bass track, but I don't see sampling able to cover the many different techniques that players do on individual instruments.
It's like a great photo album, but not the original subject.

Of course, I've found people that are rabid over synth photos, so what do I know?

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Post by MC » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:38 pm

Samples of analog synths are a waste of time and do not even scratch the surface of what the real deal is capable of. What year is this, 1990?

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Post by Jazzpunk » Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:28 am

Softsynths were the 'gateway drug' which led to my current analog obsession. This new partnership is bound to give newbies their first puff of the Moog sound which will innevitably lead some to purchase the real deal. Good for Moog which in turn is good for us all.
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Post by theglyph » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:32 am

museslave wrote:Okay, Bob's been in the grave long enough, let's make some real cash.
Nobody at Moog is getting rich!!
Last edited by theglyph on Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by PHC » Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:20 am

When I first saw this topic with no replies yet, I though:

'This is going to be one hell of a "burn the digital-sampling-godamn-heretics" thread"'

And I was right ;-)

mueslave - Except for the Bob-grave-cash thing I'm with you all the way.

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Post by Sweep » Thu Mar 29, 2007 8:14 am

Talking generally about sampling, not just about this product, when I've recorded some music using sampled Moog synth I'll put it on my download page and post the link here.

While I'm sceptical about mere sampling of sounds to superficially imitate a Moog synth, creative sampling with subsequent development of the sound really does offer something else.

The same with the much maligned soft synths mentioned above. In fact here's the link to the download page now, as there's softsynth stuff on there:

Near the bottom there are two pieces recorded with Arturia softsynths - `Intervening Shoreline' with the Arturia 2600V and `Rainfall in Kyoto' with the Moog Modular V. And far from not being `the real deal' I use the Arturia MiniMoog V as well as the `real' Voyager. A piece showing why will be recorded in the next few months,

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Post by Amos » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:17 am

This is, of course, not a Moog product. It is an IK Multimedia / Sonic Reality product, and I wish them the best with it. For folks who weren't about to get into the rich and ever-expressive realm of Real Synthesis (tm) anyway, this will be great. Their basslines will punch and sizzle (in a not so dynamic fashion), and their leads will scream, although without the realtime modulation possibilities that are so essential to expressive analog playing.

For people like myself, who need deep, realtime timbral control when playing, Moog will continue to make expressive analog hardware synths. It certainly doesn't compromise that mission to allow another company to sample the stuff.

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Post by goldphinga » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:59 pm

Amos you are always the voice of wisdom!

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Post by Lengai » Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:29 pm

I say whatever helps keep Moog in buisness is a go for all of us. A lot of beginners in music have never heard of Moog. This will allow an affordable way for a new generation of musicians to experience the Moog sound. Some of them will go on to purchase real Moog gear like we have.

Bob endorsed some Moog softsynths so this is not an underhanded attempt to make money now that he's passed. If Moog selling clothing, dolls, and doing buisness with softsynth companies helps Moog's bottom line that's great. Moog has proven they are Moog solidly and being a snob that thinks the company should stick only to hardware and run "in the red" for purist reasons is a fast way to put Moog out of business.

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Post by mee3d » Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:24 pm

You know I wouldn't mind some good samples activated from a dedicated player for those times when my memorymoog is down (down more often then up). There is some merit to this just so long as it's done right, if the filter within the IK Multimedia player can emulate a moog ladder then who knows? And as previously stated if it helps to keep moog in business and drive RnD, then perhaps we'll get to see a new poly moog sooner then later.

Those of us that hold on dearly to our hardware will naturally show distain at such digital ventures but for many, this is the future. These kids have no idea what it is like to play a memorymoog and probably never will so samples and soft synths are the way to go for them... I'm betting that it won't be too long before we really can't tell the difference between a 30 year old hardware model D and a software emulation.. it's not there yet but it's getting closer and when someone finally makes a minimoog hardware midi knob box that will be that (perhaps Arturia will eventually make control surfaces for their synths now that they are in the hardware business?).

My last thought though, is of Bob slamming the back of his hand down on a Voyager analog board and saying that the musician somehow connects with the components on the board, then making that circular jesture in the air to show that it's some form of unconscious loop from musician to instrument .... not sure how you can do that with a sample.
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