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rg
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Post by rg » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:20 pm

Need ployphonic Moog keyboard with RAC and LED knobs... Can't rest untill I get one... It is moogs destiny... Do it... Do it... Nowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww :twisted:

eric coleridge
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Post by eric coleridge » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:39 pm

I haven't tried the dot.com trans-ladder filter-- I already have a Mini and a MF101, so I didn't really need one (as if I really neeeed any of them....).

But I was wondering, what do people here think about the Q107 Filter? I'm just starting to put together my modular, of which I'm building some of (except the Filters and Oscillators. So, I began by buying a Power Supply and Q107 variable state. I don't have enough modules together yet to fully test it, but just from running audio through it thus far-- I'm pretty darn impressed.

Before the 107, the only other Band or High Pass I've had much access to is the MS20's--which I love. I feel like the 107 is comparable--different--but nearly as full of character and response (each in their own way) as the MS20s.

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Post by museslave » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:13 pm

eric coleridge wrote:I haven't tried the dot.com trans-ladder filter-- I already have a Mini and a MF101, so I didn't really need one (as if I really neeeed any of them....).
The MF101 has a far better sound than the Q150, but the Q150, of course, has more functionality.

eric coleridge wrote:But I was wondering, what do people here think about the Q107 Filter?
I have two of them plus the Q162 filter mixer. It is VERY functional... downright powerful. It does everything you would want it to. Actually, I'm surprised they don't charge more for it! The only negative thing I would say about it is that it's not... well, it's not a Moog-sounding filter. But... it doesn't have to be! I wish it had some... luscious quality... but it is a good filter even if its sound is... well... undistinctive.

I'm just starting to put together my modular, of which I'm building some of (except the Filters and Oscillators. So, I began by buying a Power Supply and Q107 variable state. I don't have enough modules together yet to fully test it, but just from running audio through it thus far-- I'm pretty darn impressed.
eric coleridge wrote:Before the 107, the only other Band or High Pass I've had much access to is the MS20's--which I love. I feel like the 107 is comparable--different--but nearly as full of character and response (each in their own way) as the MS20s.
I sold my MS-20 MS-50 combination to purchase my .com! But yes... I would agree.
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Post by museslave » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:15 pm

rg wrote:Need ployphonic Moog keyboard with RAC and LED knobs... Can't rest untill I get one... It is moogs destiny... Do it... Do it... Nowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww :twisted:
I am with you on the polyphonic board... but pleeeeease... no more digital knobs!!! Pleeease? I might be okay with knob per function digital knobs.... put please no more multiple-function digital knobssss??
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Post by MC » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:17 pm

museslave wrote:I might be okay with knob per function digital knobs.... put please no more multiple-function digital knobssss??
OK, but no complaints about prices!

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Post by eric coleridge » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:18 pm

museslave wrote: The only negative thing I would say about it is that it's not... well, it's not a Moog-sounding filter. But... it doesn't have to be! I wish it had some... luscious quality... but it is a good filter even if its sound is... well... undistinctive.
It's probably sacrilage, but I tend to like the variable-state filters I've used better than Moog ladders. I particularly love the vocally-funky sound of Band Pass filtering.

But when it comes to oscillators, for me, there's nothing much that comes close to the MiniMoog's. Even without a filter, they can sound like the most beutiful cello or bass or flutety whatever...

So, I'm really looking forward to trying out the MF107. I know it won't be Mini osc's exactly... but if some of what K. Lightener was saying about the Mini's lower voltage(10v) power supply contributing to it's sound can be applied to the 9v MF107, maybe it will indeed come close.

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Post by rg » Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:04 pm

I am with you on the polyphonic board... but pleeeeease... no more digital knobs!!! Pleeease? I might be okay with knob per function digital knobs.... put please no more multiple-function digital knobssss??
Naw one knob per function. But LED's to show where the presets are set to. RAC like the LP. Analog knobs that are captured digitally only when being saved as presets. like 40 analog knobs with LEDs... I'll pay! If that's impossible id be ok with 12 bit digital knobs. Just let me know when and i'll start saving now. I dont care if its $3000 maybe 4000! Cuz a board like that is the last one I'd ever need to buy. DOOOOO ITTTTTTTTTTTTTT

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Post by museslave » Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:20 pm

MC wrote:
museslave wrote:I might be okay with knob per function digital knobs.... put please no more multiple-function digital knobssss??
OK, but no complaints about prices!
I would rather have good old fashioned pots!
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Post by CTRLSHFT » Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:08 pm

eric coleridge wrote:
museslave wrote: The only negative thing I would say about it is that it's not... well, it's not a Moog-sounding filter. But... it doesn't have to be! I wish it had some... luscious quality... but it is a good filter even if its sound is... well... undistinctive.
It's probably sacrilage, but I tend to like the variable-state filters I've used better than Moog ladders. I particularly love the vocally-funky sound of Band Pass filtering.

But when it comes to oscillators, for me, there's nothing much that comes close to the MiniMoog's. Even without a filter, they can sound like the most beutiful cello or bass or flutety whatever...

So, I'm really looking forward to trying out the MF107. I know it won't be Mini osc's exactly... but if some of what K. Lightener was saying about the Mini's lower voltage(10v) power supply contributing to it's sound can be applied to the 9v MF107, maybe it will indeed come close.
ditto on variable state filters.. after i got my ms20 everything changed. :d
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Post by museslave » Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:06 am

I really liked the MS-20 filter arrangement... being that it had both high and low pass with resonance... and from that point forward, I ranted about the fact that I can't understand why all analog synths didn't feature both high and low pass with resonance... but I have to say that I never noticed a particular quality about the sound of the MS-20 filter that made it distinctive, just that it had both high and low pass.
The Yamaha CS-50 has both, too... although they sound to be 12 dB per oct. Still, it's WONDERFUL.
If Moog put out a high pass MoogerFooger, or started putting high pass on their synths, I'll bet it would blow the MS-20 away...

Does anyone have an MS-10 they want to sell?
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Post by toryjames » Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:32 am

sir_dss wrote:I just don't get everyones obsession with having a Moogerfooger oscillator???

Maybe I should of wrote what I was really thinking...

How stupid are all these people who think that a Moogerfooger oscillators would all that amazing on it's own.

Dude or dudette...I have a 6 VCO MOTM modular system as well as a Cyndustries Zeroscillator, 2 Blacet Dark Star Chaos modules several filters that will go into self oscillation. I know a thing or two about oscillators and drone. It's the modulation from one VCO to another that makes things interesting. This is what the MF-107 is about and why it's rad.

The MF-107 is amazing and it's more than just a Moogerfooger oscillator. So everyone gets their wish and more...
MOTM are not very helpful. In my experience, Moog have been very helpful and considerate. Moog's aesthetic is better too.
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Post by CTRLSHFT » Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:33 am

museslave wrote:I really liked the MS-20 filter arrangement... being that it had both high and low pass with resonance... and from that point forward, I ranted about the fact that I can't understand why all analog synths didn't feature both high and low pass with resonance... but I have to say that I never noticed a particular quality about the sound of the MS-20 filter that made it distinctive, just that it had both high and low pass.
The Yamaha CS-50 has both, too... although they sound to be 12 dB per oct. Still, it's WONDERFUL.
If Moog put out a high pass MoogerFooger, or started putting high pass on their synths, I'll bet it would blow the MS-20 away...

Does anyone have an MS-10 they want to sell?
particular quality of the ms-20 filter design (the most well known one):

aside from the standard 12db difference, the MS-20 filter section had a very unique ''flaw'' in the design (parts or otherwise), that made the resonance "wobble" based on the amplitude of the incoming signal. it overdrives pretty easily too. :D
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Post by eric coleridge » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:03 pm

museslave wrote: but I have to say that I never noticed a particular quality about the sound of the MS-20 filter that made it distinctive, just that it had both high and low pass.
I disagree with this description-- but even if you're right-- this is enough to make the MS20 extremely unique in the world of pre-patched monosynths. There are only a slight few that have this arrangement--with 2 resonanlt filters in series. Even the Moog Modular didn't have a resonant high pass--and I dare say that the MS20's high/low arrangement sounds alot more distinctive than the same arrangement on the Voyager.

There were two different kinds of filters in MS20s over the years (don't know if you know this story already--it's on the web in many places). The first was a custom Korg chip, the korg 35, and then later they changed it to a discrete Sallen Key filter design which required a whole other PCB placed behind the main one. Usually chips replace discrete designs, but one the MS20, it was the opposite.

By most accounts, the second discrete filter is "the" MS20 filter. It's the one that all the commercial clones use; and it's different from the MS10, MS50, and X911 filters (which all use the Korg 35 chip).

I have this discrete daughter board filter on my MS20-- and it's sound, IMO, is very distinctive. If there's not something distinctive about the filters in and of themselves, it may be that it's simply just the way that the High Pass is fed into the Low Pass...
But there are a few things/sounds that this MS20 arrangement does, that I can't reproduce on other filters (high pass or otherwise).

For instance, although I like the Q107 alot, it's band-pass response isn't as funky as the MS20's 2 fllters in series... it just sounds a little weak in comparison. The Korg gets very percussive and low mid-rangey when the resonance is turned up on the high pass (but before it starts feeding back). This allows it to make the punchiest drum sounds I can get on any synth. Also, the feedback qualities on it, as widely reported, are just extremely bizarre.

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Post by sir_dss » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:08 pm

I have a Voyager but not a MS-20. How does the dual filter mode of the Voyager rate next to the MS-20?

Yehat I know you only have 1 Res control for both filters and they can only be adjusted by the spacing. I'm just wondering about the sound.
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Post by museslave » Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:37 pm

eric coleridge wrote:this is enough to make the MS20 extremely unique in the world of pre-patched monosynths. There are only a slight few that have this arrangement--with 2 resonanlt filters in series.
I totally agree! Believe me, I'm not bashing the MS-20 at all. I fell in love with the filter design. I have often considered buying the Frostwave thing... I eventually stopped because the MS-20 filter arrangement, in retrospect after years of digital synths, actually sounds digital!
eric coleridge wrote:There were two different kinds of filters in MS20s over the years (don't know if you know this story already--it's on the web in many places). The first was a custom Korg chip, the korg 35, and then later they changed it to a discrete Sallen Key filter design which required a whole other PCB placed behind the main one. Usually chips replace discrete designs, but one the MS20, it was the opposite.
I did not know this! That's very interesting! I'm going to guess that the MS-20 I had was an earlier model, as it sounded (sans High Pass) very much like my MS-10. The MS-50, in general, sounded very little like either my MS-10 OR MS-20, consequently it had my favorite sound of any of the MS series. Still, all of them (that I had) were so clean and pure and accurate that they ended up (to me) sounding more modern than vintage. Kudos to Korg for their forward-thinking design, sad for me as a vintage obsessive. ; )


eric coleridge wrote:For instance, although I like the Q107 alot, it's band-pass response isn't as funky as the MS20's 2 fllters in series... it just sounds a little weak in comparison. The Korg gets very percussive and low mid-rangey when the resonance is turned up on the high pass (but before it starts feeding back). This allows it to make the punchiest drum sounds I can get on any synth. Also, the feedback qualities on it, as widely reported, are just extremely bizarre.
I feel the same way about my Q107... I was hoping it was just me!
I loved how you could generate MASSIVELY punchy low end with the resonance on the High Pass way up and the cutoff point very low...
Sadly, those feedback-type effects, while cool for anyone who is into more electronic-related music, sound far too modern for people like me who are into a more vintage sound... which is funny, because the danged synthesizer is as old as many synths that make the vintage sound!
I'm going to write an essay on perception of synthesizers sometime, and will definitely write a lot about how curious it is to seek a vintage sound from SOME vintage synthesizers but not others because the others didn't make their way into the collective synthesizer consciousness until more modern times. : )
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