wait and listen.....NAMM

dr_floyd · Post by **dr_floyd** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:03 pm

Hi Eric
Once I learned to play to the devices more, I've had great success and fun with the Roland SPV355 and Gentle Electric 101 for fretless electric bass and sax/flute/clarinet. The SPV doesn't track the bass very well past low C though. I use them both for triggering Minimoogs and Oberheim SEMs.

I've also tried and abandoned the Korg MS20 and I've also tried the Fairlight Voicetracker, but I need more time to set it up optimally. It has lots of useful CV outputs (it converts timbre as well as envelope and pitch!).

I'm also rigging a new input to an Arp Avatar so I can compare it's PV converter to the others. The Arp has a Moog filter and sounds incredible to me. Others find this intermingling of the species sacriligious.

I also use the Roland VP70 pitch to MIDI converter, and coupled with a Roland MPU101 to convert MIDI to CV can make quite a bit of noise and can track very well with some care. My bass has a 13 pin output, so I've also experimented with each string going to a separate PV converter to separate analog monosynths, which sounds amazing, but the setup and tweaking take too long.

Which is why I'm very interested in the FreqBox. But it doesn't have a PV converter, it seems to track the pitch more in the way Kevin Lightner and OysterRock have described.

Pat.

Kevin Lightner · Post by **Kevin Lightner** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:40 pm

I'd guess it doesn't do any pitch to CV conversion simply by the fact that it has a vco and no CV out (correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't looked at the jacks it offers.)

Fwiw, hard sync is normally implemented by shorting out the capacitor that's charging for the waveform ramp.
Basically it starts the waveform back from its beginning, no matter where in the cycle it actually was.
To make it less confusing, consider that a saw tooth is a waveform going up (usually) in voltage, then dropping and quickly repeating.
A sync pulse stops that waveform from going any higher and starts it back again from ground.
This is why ext sync frequencies are usually higher than the oscillator being sync'd.
If they were lower, you'd probably not hear as much change.

sir_dss · Post by **sir_dss** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:52 pm

On the subject of PLL...

Is this similar to the 107?

http://www.schumannelectronics.com/pll.html

OysterRock · Post by **OysterRock** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 7:30 pm

sir_dss wrote:On the subjeck of PLL...

Is this similar to the 107?

It really depends on what the 107 actually does, I don't think any one can say until the full specs are given. We know the 107 uses frequency sync somehow, but its still unknown if there is a true frequency tracking circuit in there. The Schumann is strictly frequncy tracking, most obviously by using a PLL (Phase Locked Loop).

I don't have a Schumann PLL but seems to do exactly what a PLL does: outputs a square wave with a frequncy equal to the frequency of whatever signal is inputed into it. Then you can maninulate this square wave just like any other square wave (multiply, divide, etc.). These types of circuits run into the same problems that any frequency tracking circuit does: Limited tracking range, difficulty locking on to a seemingly arbitrary signal such as a guitar, and poor transient response (meaning it takes time for the output frequency to "settle" to an input frequency, especially if the input changes a lot).

OLFAudio · Post by **OLFAudio** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:42 pm

I have the Schumann pedal in question and my first thought upon watching the namm video was that the 107 sounded and reacted very similar to the PLL. Once I have them both in my clutches I'll report on how they compare soundwise.

eric coleridge · Post by **eric coleridge** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:02 am

sir_dss wrote:On the subject of PLL...

Is this similar to the 107?

http://www.schumannelectronics.com/pll.html

I think I'm starting to understand better this PPL thing(and how it may be used in the 107) after reading the description of this Schuman product. It sounds like this schuman outputs the PPL's signal directly (plus sub-oscillator/audio divider and wave-shaper).

But I guess maybe the MF107 might instead just use the PPL oscillator signal to control/modulate a "real" VCO.

OysterRock wrote: Again, I don't really know whats going to in there, but we can agree that the main oscillator is syncing to something.

Is this why you're conjecturing that the 107 may have two oscillators? One being the PPL (which is just used as a control/modulation source), and the other being the audio VCO? So when the sync is engaged, it's actually syncing to the PPL oscillator (which will be following the input frequency)?

I didn't understand (until reading the schuman description) that the PPL is itself an audio generator. I thought before that PPL was just the frequency following circuit. But it actually outputs a squarewave, not a CV, yes?

OysterRock · Post by **OysterRock** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:36 am

eric coleridge wrote:
Is this why you're conjecturing that the 107 may have two oscillators? One being the PPL (which is just used as a control/modulation source), and the other being the audio VCO? So when the sync is engaged, it's actually syncing to the PPL oscillator (which will be following the input frequency)?

Yes, that was from Kevin's original idea about the PLLs in the 107. Cool idea, even if that is not what the 107 is doing.

I didn't understand (until reading the schuman description) that the PPL is itself an audio generator. I thought before that PPL was just the frequency following circuit. But it actually outputs a squarewave, not a CV, yes?

Yes, a PLL outputs a square wave and can even be used as a free running oscillator (with no AC input).

It you wanted to make a PLL into a frequency-to-Voltage type decive, you run into another host of problems. This includes the need for a very linear filter over a very wide range and absolute precision to get the desired DC voltage outputed. Not fun stuff.

latigid on · Post by **latigid on** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:29 pm

OysterRock wrote:From the beyondjazz link above:

I can get Hendrix like feedback from this thing, it's so powerful. As a guitar player, I'm particularly interested in a player becoming the "Hendrix" of Rhodes. I set these puppies up so vast feedback effects can be had, a creative lad would explore all these new possibilities with volume, feedback and effects.
The pianos do the feedback thing without any fuzz or boost pedals, right out of the box.

That's it, I take back all my precautions. Its settled. I'm getting one.

Okay, OT again.

Rhodes VII images:

http://www.fenderrhodes.com/forum/viewt ... sc&start=0

sir_dss · Post by **sir_dss** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:38 pm

Ok...

I played the 107 at NAMM Friday. Fantastic!!!

As a guitar processor it's amazing it can also be used as a extra VCO with yr. Voyager, Lil Phatty or other 1v/OCT synths. Yes it tracks 1V per Oct.(told to me by Nick from Volts Per Oct bbw).

SO many different kinds of distortion can be made from this. Total Octavia Hendrixism to Jesus and Mary Chain barb wire kisses. My Bloody Valentine/Ramones/Sonic Youth/etc dreamy...

The FM allows you to dial in so much style and texture. WAY more musical than I had imagined...also more rock n roll too... AC/DC at times.

Turning the SYNC off allows you to get into drone/doom/raga mode and with a little envelope and FM added you will be putting babys to sleep and making soundtracks for midwest makeout parties(maybe making babies?).

So many things can be done with this new Moogerfooger. It is simple to use and deep at the same time. This will be the new tube screamer/fuzzface for a future guitar god. A true fuzz factory.

I have the feeling anyone interested in having a Moogerfooger guitar synth set up will have their wish soon. If you're into that sort of thing...

cheveux.boucles · Post by **cheveux.boucles** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:35 pm

sounds like a drone machine... I'm really excited! Can't wait to try one out.

SteveD · Post by **SteveD** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:26 am

Hi everybody -
pics and specs are now up on the website for the MF-107.

Just to clarify one thing - the "pitch tracking" that you hear is the result of hard sync - the oscillator takes on the frequency of the input because it is reset at the frequency of the input.

There's a whole lot you can do with this thing - so get ready...

SD

Kevin Lightner · Post by **Kevin Lightner** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:08 pm

Welcome to your own forum, Steve.

CTRLSHFT · Post by **CTRLSHFT** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:53 pm

SteveD wrote:Hi everybody -
pics and specs are now up on the website for the MF-107.

Just to clarify one thing - the "pitch tracking" that you hear is the result of hard sync - the oscillator takes on the frequency of the input because it is reset at the frequency of the input.

There's a whole lot you can do with this thing - so get ready...

SD

Thank you for designing this instrument of awesomeness. I'll be getting a couple.

eric coleridge · Post by **eric coleridge** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 11:50 am

SteveD wrote:Hi everybody -
pics and specs are now up on the website for the MF-107.

Just to clarify one thing - the "pitch tracking" that you hear is the result of hard sync - the oscillator takes on the frequency of the input because it is reset at the frequency of the input.

There's a whole lot you can do with this thing - so get ready...

SD

May I respectfully express an opinion about the prototype of the 106?

OK, I'm gonna assume you won't mind;

I think many people might prefer a waveform legend around the Waveform pot, versus the numbered dial on the prototype.

The numbered dial is just temporary right?

SteveD · Post by **SteveD** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:06 pm

Thanks for your input - you're not the only one with that opinion - so we've already planned on changing the legend around the waveform knob to show the waveforms a la the Voyager.

SD

Moog Music Forum

wait and listen.....NAMM

MF-107 page up

Re: MF-107 page up

Re: MF-107 page up

Waveform Knob Legend