wait and listen.....NAMM

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eric coleridge
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Post by eric coleridge » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:37 am

I guess there might be a Env. output also, as on the MF101.

So that's about 9 or 10 jacks already: Audio In/out, Freq CV In, Waveshape In, Env amount, FM amount, Mix, VCO out, Env out.

One other output that would be amazing would be a Pitch CV output-- so you could control the Voyager or LP from the 106. You could use the Env out as a gate signal and have complete contol over a synth.

dr_floyd
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Post by dr_floyd » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:35 pm

I think it's not pitch following at all. In the video when he tunes the VCO and then plays a melody, the VCO stays on the same pitch while the guitar melody changes.

The VCO pitch only seems to change when it's following the envelope and when the guitar signal is mixed in.

If it pitch followed there would have to be more controls and they sure would have mentioned it.

toryjames
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Post by toryjames » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:50 pm

dr_floyd wrote:I think it's not pitch following at all. In the video when he tunes the VCO and then plays a melody, the VCO stays on the same pitch while the guitar melody changes.

The VCO pitch only seems to change when it's following the envelope and when the guitar signal is mixed in.

If it pitch followed there would have to be more controls and they sure would have mentioned it.


Watch the video again. Around 02:24, he switches the sync function and the oscillator pitch begins to follow the guitar.

Amos was very patient and answered my questions:

The FreqBox has a 1v/oct CV freq input. (Can be controlled by a standard analog keyboard CV out)

It has a VCA bypass audio output (pure sustained osc tone).

He named the input/output jacks for me:

Audio In
OSC Freq (CV In)
OSC Waveshape (CV In)
Env Amt (CV In)
Mix (CV In)
OSC Out (sustained VCO wave [no VCA])
Audio Out (w/ VCA)
Env Follower Out

He may have said one more, I was writing as fast as I could but may have missed something. Either way, it does what I was hoping it would:
1) 1v/oct pitch control
2) OSC Out (sustained waveform output, bypassing the internal VCA [like a traditional standalone oscillator])

Hope this helps those of you who had the same questions.
Last edited by toryjames on Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.

toryjames
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Post by toryjames » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:52 pm

Oh yeah, I probably missed FM CV Input.

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museslave
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Post by museslave » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:29 pm

I just watched the video of the thing... and I am astounded and utterly thrilled.
I mean, sure... the video focuses mostly on the "effect" nature of the Moogerfooger... but wow... variable waveform, CV control, oh, my god.

This is the best product idea Moog has had in a very long time. It's useful to EVERYONE... from guitarists to techno artists to people like me, who would love it in a modular/CV-controllable oscillator sense.

Just think what TWO of them would sound like...
Okay, yes, Moog... it's time to put out an ENV and VCA... I would LOVE to have a couple of FreqBoxes, the Low Pass, a couple of ENVs and a VCA pedal that I could control from a CV analog keyboard.

Um, everyone? You know that cute 1 osc analog board you have that has CV-out control? For 300 bucks, it just became half-Moog. ; )

eric coleridge
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Post by eric coleridge » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:59 pm

dr_floyd wrote:I think it's not pitch following at all. In the video when he tunes the VCO and then plays a melody, the VCO stays on the same pitch while the guitar melody changes.

The VCO pitch only seems to change when it's following the envelope and when the guitar signal is mixed in.

If it pitch followed there would have to be more controls and they sure would have mentioned it.


I noticed that also, but I think it's because it was still following the open E string.

It was pitch tracking him at first as he was hitting the open E to demonstrate this feature-- then when he starts playing the riff-- it continues to go after the open E. Like maybe it needed a rest before going to another note, and didn't get it.

It probably doesn't track perfectly-- but it seemed to find that initial note pretty quickly. I don't think he would have been able to get the freq that close with his foot that quickly.

OysterRock
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Post by OysterRock » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:38 pm

The 107 already has a VCA, so all we need now is an envelope generator. When used as an audio effect, it seems an envelope follower tracks the envelope of the input audio. This envelope is probably routed to the VCA and to the oscillator frequency, but only the osc freq is user adjustable (env amount knob). I bet if you input an envelope CV into the audio input, the VCA will track it.

eweise
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Post by eweise » Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:36 pm

eric coleridge wrote:
dr_floyd wrote:I think it's not pitch following at all. In the video when he tunes the VCO and then plays a melody, the VCO stays on the same pitch while the guitar melody changes.

The VCO pitch only seems to change when it's following the envelope and when the guitar signal is mixed in.

If it pitch followed there would have to be more controls and they sure would have mentioned it.


I noticed that also, but I think it's because it was still following the open E string.

It was pitch tracking him at first as he was hitting the open E to demonstrate this feature-- then when he starts playing the riff-- it continues to go after the open E. Like maybe it needed a rest before going to another note, and didn't get it.

It probably doesn't track perfectly-- but it seemed to find that initial note pretty quickly. I don't think he would have been able to get the freq that close with his foot that quickly.


It sure sounds like its pitch tracking to me. In fact, I thought that was the point of the effect.

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Post by dr_floyd » Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:55 pm

toryjames, I was paying very careful attention, and I'm ecstatic to be wrong.

I use CV pitch followers all the time, and this wasn't behaving in a way I am used to, but if Moog has some new way to do it, that's FANTASTIC. I did hear moments where it seemed like pitch tracking, but ultimately it also seemed inconclusive to me.

I guess it seemed strange that he didn't devote just 2 seconds to the pitch following feature unobstructed by the other stuff.

Anyway, thanks for the more detailed information toryjames.

OysterRock
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Post by OysterRock » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:44 pm

From Jared's NAMM Blog:

Basically, you can think of the Freq Box as an audio modulated oscillator, where your input signal controls the frequency of an internal oscillator. A hard sync feature can make the internal oscillator sound like it's following the input


I think that its pretty well spelled out right there. An "internal oscillator" (probably a PLL) follows the frequency of the input, the main oscillator hard syncs to this internal oscillator. Doesn't sound like traditional pitch followers because its not, no conversion to DC voltage.

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latigid on
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Post by latigid on » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:01 pm

Okay, okay,
*excited*
I'm gonna get one and throw my Digitec Whammy under a bus!

:) :) :) :) 8) :P :P 8) :lol:

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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:27 pm

My current guess is that it has a VCO with hard sync.
The guitar is overdriven and used to modulate the VCO.
The same signal is used to control the hard sync.

My guess anyways.
Possibly it came from a bit of fooling around in back of a voyager.
I can see someone plugging an overdrive pedal into the VCO's pitch input and getting half way there.

eric coleridge
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Post by eric coleridge » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:51 am

OysterRock wrote:From Jared's NAMM Blog:

Basically, you can think of the Freq Box as an audio modulated oscillator, where your input signal controls the frequency of an internal oscillator. A hard sync feature can make the internal oscillator sound like it's following the input


I think that its pretty well spelled out right there. An "internal oscillator" (probably a PLL) follows the frequency of the input, the main oscillator hard syncs to this internal oscillator. Doesn't sound like traditional pitch followers because its not, no conversion to DC voltage.


Not to say I know anything about effects design, but I understood this to mean that there is only one ocsillator-- and when he talks about the "internal oscillator" or the audio oscillator, it's the same thing.

I've read a couple descriptions now where the VCO is described as hard syncing directly to the audio input. It seems like this statement would rule out the use of a second oscillator, no?

eric coleridge
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Post by eric coleridge » Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:26 pm

dr_floyd wrote:I use CV pitch followers all the time


Which ones do you use? Do any of them work particularly well? I've only used a couple and haven't found one that I really like yet. I'd particularly like to find one that tracks bass well. I know the later Roland Guitar synths are suppossed to track pretty well-- but then you're stuck using the whole Roland synth, without a way to export the CV.

This is one reason I've been very intrerested in this Freq Box.

dr_floyd wrote:I guess it seemed strange that he didn't devote just 2 seconds to the pitch following feature unobstructed by the other stuff.


I think this is strange too. And also it's strange that the pitch following feature isn't more prominently hyped in these descriptions. But still, it was written that the VCO's frequency is "controlled" by the input--- which suggests, to me, tracking rather than just modulation/enveloping.

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Post by OysterRock » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:52 pm

eric coleridge wrote:
Not to say I know anything about effects design, but I understood this to mean that there is only one ocsillator-- and when he talks about the "internal oscillator" or the audio oscillator, it's the same thing.

I've read a couple descriptions now where the VCO is described as hard syncing directly to the audio input. It seems like this statement would rule out the use of a second oscillator, no?


Again, I don't really know whats going to in there, but we can agree that the main oscillator is syncing to something. Whether that means it syncs directly to the audio or to another oscillator that syncs to the audio. Im not even really sure how hard sync is implinmented on the circuit level, but it seems to me that it would be a lot harder to get a true sync to something like a direct audio signal.

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