wait and listen.....NAMM

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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:39 am

I've never seen an oscillator that can sync to an irregular external audio signal.


It matters how irregular, I suppose.
One could take a signal, raise its gain a lot, clip it on one or both sides or maybe send it to a schmitt trigger... then into the hard sync input.
But speculation breeds contempt ;-)
What if it was PLL *and* softsync?
What if it was some signal chopper at VCO rates?
What if it was a series of octave dividers sync'd to the input signal, then modulated with a VCO using a phase shift section?
We could do this for quite a long time.. :)

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GregAE
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Post by GregAE » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:18 pm

OysterRock wrote:
MC wrote:We're not only missing the ADSR, we're missing the VCA.

Then you'd have the components to make a modular synth.


Can't the ring mod be used as a VCA? I think you can plug a dummy plug into the carrier in to disable it, then supply a control voltage to the MIX input.


You can use the Ring Modulator as a VCA, but since that is not it's primary function, it has limited use in practice (it doesn't work as well as a dedicated VCA, but is still useable for some applications). I described how to do this in 'Lord of the Ring (Modulator)' by applying an envelope CV into the Carrier Input jack. But I like your idea of using a dummy plug into the Carrier Input and applying a CV to the Mix input - I'll have to try that (so many way to use these handy devices...).

- G

CTRLSHFT
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Post by CTRLSHFT » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:35 pm

GregAE wrote:
OysterRock wrote:
MC wrote:We're not only missing the ADSR, we're missing the VCA.

Then you'd have the components to make a modular synth.


Can't the ring mod be used as a VCA? I think you can plug a dummy plug into the carrier in to disable it, then supply a control voltage to the MIX input.


You can use the Ring Modulator as a VCA, but since that is not it's primary function, it has limited use in practice (it doesn't work as well as a dedicated VCA, but is still useable for some applications). I described how to do this in 'Lord of the Ring (Modulator)' by applying an envelope CV into the Carrier Input jack. But I like your idea of using a dummy plug into the Carrier Input and applying a CV to the Mix input - I'll have to try that (so many way to use these handy devices...).

- G


using the same dummy jack to carrier in idea:

take a gate signal from a cv-midi converter/sequencer/cv kb/square wave lfo(+5v preferred presumably, i vaguely recall needing to flip the polarity), run into a cp-251's lag processor, run output to the mix in on the 102, and you have not only a VCA, but an instant ASR env generator, adjustable from the lag rise and fall knobs.

works pretty well! haven't tried yet but i bet if you attenuate the signal properly, this same env would work effectively for the cv filter in on the mf-101..

eric coleridge
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Post by eric coleridge » Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:36 pm

godzilla wrote:i wonder if they were trying to come up with a pitch-cv circut (in response to all our wishes of one) but then stumbled across whatever this ends up being and thought that it is cooler anyway?


I think that the P/V thing might just be an inherently flawed and cumbersome technology. On the MS-20 it requires alot of knobs for input level, threshold, signal filtering, CV fine-tune, etc-- and even then it only works semi well across a couple octaves on certain instruments played in a particular way (trying to avoid mis-firings, etc). That's alot of variables for a stomp box.

I'm guessing that rather than potentially offer a half-baked product, they decided to aim for something different.

Or maybe, it actually is something akin to a P/V circuit, but because they know ahead of time that it won't convert Pitch to Voltage 100% successfully in all instances, they're reluctant to market it in this way-- so they're just calling it frequeny modulation.

In the track, it does sound like the VCO frequency is matching the same note as the guitar as the guitar signal decays at the end of each phrase.

In any event, it will be cool having a discrete Moog VCO.

toryjames
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Post by toryjames » Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:26 am

eric coleridge wrote:
museslave wrote:So, do you think this thing can be used as a stand-alone oscillator? That would be VERY cool... to have that effect, AND be able to use it as a stand-alone CV controllable oscillator.



Isn't Frequency Modulation(FM) the same thing as CV in? I bet it will have a seperate Volt/Octave CV in also (and sync in, waveshape in, etc.). In the picture, it looks like there are about 9 or 10 jacks.

For pure osc signal you could just set the mix knob to 100% Oscillator.


I don't know if this was answered, but I think FM is linear and traditional CV is exponential. Hoping there is a 1v/oct input as well.

Radio Lab
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This aint your Dads 'Little Brother'

Post by Radio Lab » Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:24 am

Hoping that it was gonna be something along the lines of ARPS Little Brosie, back when everyone was providing their wish lish item for the next Mooger, its sounding as if it aint even close to the 'lil bro, y'know?!
The Arp Osc is really an add-on giving you a third Osc to monkey with so your Odyssey can mimic the MiniMoog Model D, yea rite! they were as close to the mimic as I was to the guess, but hey this mooger sounds like a whole new animal and if it indeed can add a third Oscilator in the process along with doing some of the other tricks you guys have been sayin, then I'm in.
now watch this thing cost like 799.99 or something. that would not be good.

Just thought I'd throw my 3 cents into this 7 page mix:::::::cheers:::::::
8)


"Never give up Hope"

CTRLSHFT
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Re: This aint your Dads 'Little Brother'

Post by CTRLSHFT » Tue Jan 16, 2007 1:31 pm

Radio Lab wrote:Hoping that it was gonna be something along the lines of ARPS Little Brosie, back when everyone was providing their wish lish item for the next Mooger, its sounding as if it aint even close to the 'lil bro, y'know?!
The Arp Osc is really an add-on giving you a third Osc to monkey with so your Odyssey can mimic the MiniMoog Model D, yea rite! they were as close to the mimic as I was to the guess, but hey this mooger sounds like a whole new animal and if it indeed can add a third Oscilator in the process along with doing some of the other tricks you guys have been sayin, then I'm in.
now watch this thing cost like 799.99 or something. that would not be good.

Just thought I'd throw my 3 cents into this 7 page mix:::::::cheers:::::::
8)


"Never give up Hope"


i'm with ya on wishing this could/will act like an osc supplement for the LP/Voyager etc. Wait and see though, Moog is aware of what people out here want.

btw:
the website that leaked the mf-107 had it priced at $339.

toryjames
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Post by toryjames » Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:19 pm

CTRLSHFT wrote:so who wants to take a stab at what jacks are on this thing?

my 2 cents:

| audio in | freq in | env in | mix in | fm in |
| audio out | freq out | env out | wave in |


I have been wanting a Moog VCO for SO long (every single warranty card I returned: "A Moog VCO" - never truly believing they would). It is great they finally figured a way to make it useful as a standalone product and as a full-featured Moog oscillator (assuming there is a 1v/oct input). Since it has a linear FM control it will make sounds that neither the Voyager or the Little Phatty oscillators can (standard CV in [exponential FM] creates an audible pitch bend). This is what is so great about modular stuff, incorporating real world audio into synthesis.
Maybe MF106 is an Env generator/VCA with a cycle switch (doubling as a glorified tremolo pedal). There, we would have the 21st-century Moog modular.

Oh yeah... Moog ribbon controller to plug into the red CP-251 multi jack.

Okay, my guess at the rear jacks, there's the five knobs which probably have corresponding control inputs:
VCO Freq (exponential CV - which may be calibrated to 1v/oct)
Waveform
Env Amt.
FM Amt. (linear CV)
Mix

then...

Audio In
Audio Out
Env Out
*1v/oct (unless VCO Freq. jack takes care of this)
*Sync Input (but maybe it boosts/distorts the Audio Input toward a clipping square shape and syncs to the audio source)

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latigid on
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Post by latigid on » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:09 am

OysterRock wrote:
museslave wrote:It'll be interesting to see the price.


I have a feeling it ain't going to be cheap. Hopefully that won't be its undoing. There are a LOT of cheap Rhodes' out there and many people aren't going to pay a couple thousand for something similar you can get for a few hundred. Hopefully (and it sounds like it might) it will bring a lot of new things to the table that seperate it from the vintage Rhodes.

I on the other hand might be persuaded to throw down quite a bit of money for a BRAND NEW Rhodes.


Hey there, just to go "off-topic": :P

http://www.beyondjazz.net/viewtopic.php?t=12322

There aren't too many Rhodes' where I live; I paid about US$1400 for a 73 Suitcase. But he did throw in a Roland MPU-101, TR-505, SPD-11...

OysterRock
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Post by OysterRock » Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:29 pm

latigid on wrote:There aren't too many Rhodes' where I live; I paid about US$1400 for a 73 Suitcase. But he did throw in a Roland MPU-101, TR-505, SPD-11...


Thats quite a bit of $, depends on the condition. They are very common here in the States. I got my 1975 Stage for about $250USD on eBay a few years ago. That was a steal, though. I haven't checked in a while, but they probably go for a bit more now. It will be interesting to see what happens to the price of the vintage Rhodes once the new one is released.

Anyway, my point was that, for the new Rhodes company's sake, hopefully the new Rhodes will bring enough new stuff to the table, keep the cost low enough and SOUND GOOD enough to tempt people away from the vintage one. Say that the new Rhodes costs $3000USD. Here in the US, you can get a FULLY RESTORED Stage, that is good as new for around half that.

I don't really know the cost, I'm just thinking of scenarios. Building a Rhodes is, I'm sure, very labor intensive. Labor is expensive. Not to mention all the custom hardware (tines, wooden hammers, tonebars, etc, etc, etc) that needs to be machined. Yes, this will put quite a dent in the old pocketbook.

I very exciteted about this new Rhodes and will probably be impressed with whatever is released, but I'm just afraid others won't be willing to pay the price.

Hmmmmm....maybe if it were made in Taiwan.... :o

OysterRock
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Post by OysterRock » Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:45 pm

From the beyondjazz link above:

I can get Hendrix like feedback from this thing, it's so powerful. As a guitar player, I'm particularly interested in a player becoming the "Hendrix" of Rhodes. I set these puppies up so vast feedback effects can be had, a creative lad would explore all these new possibilities with volume, feedback and effects.
The pianos do the feedback thing without any fuzz or boost pedals, right out of the box.



That's it, I take back all my precautions. Its settled. I'm getting one.

eweise
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Post by eweise » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:22 pm

Has anyone checked out the mf-107 yet at the namm show? If so, what's your impression?

toryjames
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Wow, here it is.

Post by toryjames » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:25 pm

I won't be adding that second MOTM VCO to my modular (that I have been waiting 2+ years for). Far more interesting. Thank you Moog, THANK YOU!
http://www.gearwire.com/media/moog-mf-107-wnamm.mov

CTRLSHFT
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Post by CTRLSHFT » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:57 pm

eweise wrote:Has anyone checked out the mf-107 yet at the namm show? If so, what's your impression?


ditto! anybody have info on the back panel jacks? does it scale 1/v oct?

the gearwire video is a nice teaser, but (as usual i suppose!) I wanna know more!

eric coleridge
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Post by eric coleridge » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:19 am

Incredible. This thing really exceedes expectations. It seems to be tracking the input signal pitch really well, and without much delay. It's totally pitch following!

The un-modulated Oscillator itself also sounds great, and is continuously variable for triangle/sawtooth/square/pulse with hard sync (synced to the input signal!!)

There's alot of control over the VCO with both an env follower, and FM. The FM starts to sound like a fuzz box as he turns the knob up all the way.

There is definitely a CV input, which the guy playing the guitar is using to create the wha-wha sync effect. It will be volt/octave like the other Moogers, no question.

It will be interesting to see what the other input/outputs are. I guess Audio In/Out, Freq CV In, Waveshape, Env amount, FM amount, Mix... VCO out?, maybe sync on/off...

I guess it's not neccesary for it to have a hard sync input-- the signal input doubles as a hard sync input. I bet there will be a VCO output though that bypasses the VCA.

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