1630 Moog/Bode Frequency Shifter

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sir_dss
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1630 Moog/Bode Frequency Shifter

Post by sir_dss » Mon Feb 09, 2004 11:14 pm

Does anyone know what's so special about this module?
I've seen original ones go for close to $4000 and copys go for around $1600. I did downlode some samples but it just seem to sound like a VCO with the resonance cranked to self-oscilation. Maybe some ring modulation in there too.

jrlaudio
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Huh?

Post by jrlaudio » Sun May 16, 2004 6:17 am

Do you mean VCF with resonance cranked ...? A VCO already oscillates on its own. It's an oscillator.

A Bode is none of the things you surmise from samples. I would manipulate and listen to one in the flesh, because samples only sound as good as the sampler's skill with sampling and his skill with what he is sampling. You need to play with one of these to understand its possibilities in modular synthesis. Or at least understand the function of a bode in harmonic theory and its electrical equivalent as a module.

The high value is based on the rarity. Very few of these, maybe less than 25 where ever produced by Moog. Some where built by Bob himself, or so goes the lore.

John

sir_dss
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Post by sir_dss » Sun May 16, 2004 3:30 pm

Whooa...Cool your boots hothead.

With that attitude I'd think you were in DFA being from NYC and all.

Listen dude even if you were cranked on a Scarface mountain of coke you can't freak out over a simple observation like that. Are you that lonely? That big of a synth nerd(and we all are around here)? Is your job to make me wrong?

And on top of it you didn't even say what this thing does. I know what self-oscilation is with VCF's. I own a Voyager and have built a bunch of VCF modules. In fact this morning I waw building a Synthacon VCF.

Please respond if you can give some information about this module. What it does. What it sounds like. Etc... Not all of have been that close to one of the 25 holy grails that is the Moog/Bode.

Do you know if any of the clones come close to the original sound?

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MC
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Post by MC » Mon May 17, 2004 12:04 am

Don't worry about how close they sound to the original.

A Frequency Shifter's key circuit is the quadrature sinewave generators and the dome filters. Quadrature means they generate two sine waves 90 degrees apart, technically they're a sine/cosine pair. The Moog/Bode did this using analog circuits and the 90 degree phase difference was really hard to maintain. If they were not exactly 90 degrees apart then you would have bleedthrough of the original signal.

The Dome filters have a lot of trimpots which have to be adjusted for optimum operation. The Moog/Bode modules were built over 25 years ago and not only will the trimpots be out of whack, but so will the capacitors in the filters. The life of these components is not perpetual. These parts have expired beyond their sell-by-date and the dome filters would need new parts before they can do their job.

Aging components will also throw the quadrature generators out of whack.

So don't worry about how close they sound to the original, because the original isn't the optimum design.

I know that the Encore Electronics Frequency Shifter (usual disclaimer) uses computer software for perfect quadrature sinewaves. That goes a long to a frequency shifter doing its job right. I heard that the Doepfer FS suffers from bleedthrough. Analogue Systems of Great Britian offers a new FS that is faithful to the original Moog/Bode design.

What does a Frequency Shifter sound like? There are some good mp3s at the Encore website on this page.

http://www.encoreelectronics.com/cont_fs1.html

For a good primer on Frequency Shifters, read this

http://emusician.com/ar/emusic_analogue_systems/

Gorillafoxi
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Re: 1630 Moog/Bode Frequency Shifter

Post by Gorillafoxi » Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:34 pm

Soooo....is Moog just waiting for someone to ask for one these to be made in the current lineup? :)

Just Me
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Re: 1630 Moog/Bode Frequency Shifter

Post by Just Me » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:27 pm

The market is WAY too small to ever invest in a repop. It doesn't work well as a stand alone module. There are alternatives available.
"Music expresses that which can not be said and on which it is impossible to be silent."

Gorillafoxi
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Re: 1630 Moog/Bode Frequency Shifter

Post by Gorillafoxi » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:49 pm

I suppose you're right. On the other hand, one might argue that some modules that have slipped in to pedal form (for lack of a better term) may not work very well as standalones, either. It seems whenever development of a piece does come about, it's developed with many potential uses in mind when Moog is involved. I think it would be nice to have regardless. I had the pleasure of listening to a few sound samples and already thought of a few things I'd like to try myself. :)

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Kevin Lightner
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Re: 1630 Moog/Bode Frequency Shifter

Post by Kevin Lightner » Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:58 am

Here's a demo I made years ago using Paul McCartney's "With a Little Luck" processed through a Bode 1630.

http://www.synthfool.com/bode1630.mp3

Obviously there's more happening than standard ring modulation here.
One can do a lot of interesting musical effects by voltage controlling it from a keyboard or sequencer.
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Re: 1630 Moog/Bode Frequency Shifter

Post by Electrong » Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:09 am

Wow.. That was funny. I think it seems like it is a combination of a Ring Modulator and a pitch shifter. Very cool. If they don't have a pedal version available, I was wondering how one would go about building a module from Encore electronics and then putting it into the signal path of a Minimoog, or simply using it to process various instruments. This seems much more versatile than either a Ring Modulator or a Pitch shifter.. Chorus, phasing, pitch shifting, RM sounds..
Minimoog Model D, Roland SH-1, Simmons SDS-8, Rhodes 73 suitcase, Ludwig/Gretsch Drums, Zildjian/Paiste/UFIP cymbals, Various acoustic percussive effects

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GregAE
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Re: 1630 Moog/Bode Frequency Shifter

Post by GregAE » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:27 pm

Well, there's this:

http://www.ehx.com/products/ring-thing

Conceptually similar to the Bode unit, it offers both Ring Modulation and Single Sideband Modulation (separate Upper and Lower sidebands).

- Greg

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Re:

Post by theglyph » Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:08 pm

MC wrote:I heard that the Doepfer FS suffers from bleedthrough. Analogue Systems of Great Britian offers a new FS that is faithful to the original Moog/Bode design.
The Doepfer FS has horrible bleedthrough that makes it almost unusable. THE AS FS is said to be great but it's appropriately pricey. There's also the soon to be MOTU/SynthTech E560 and of course the Encore which are both digital.

Gorillafoxi
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Re: 1630 Moog/Bode Frequency Shifter

Post by Gorillafoxi » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:52 pm

Upon further inspection, yes.....it looks like the AS RS240 is a strong candidate. On the other hand, I can't economically justify paying the leg and the ass that they're asking for it. Hm...

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bunnyman
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Re: 1630 Moog/Bode Frequency Shifter

Post by bunnyman » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:01 am

[attachment=0]Picture 3.png[/attachment]Arturia's Moog Modular V (version 2) has a Bode Frequency shifter module that's certainly fun to play with (and a lot cheaper than a couple grand...).
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Arturia Moog Bode Freq Shifer
Arturia Moog Bode Freq Shifer
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johnll
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Re: 1630 Moog/Bode Frequency Shifter

Post by johnll » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:59 pm

Here's another take on how a Frequency Shifter works. Grey box halfway down this page:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan02/a ... ts0102.asp

Bode also made them in a rack-mount version. They were highly prized in academic electronic music studios, like Columbia-Princeton, back in the day. I have read that Kraftwerk liked them as well.

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