Osc differences with new/old moogs?

[goldphinga]

First of all i love all my moogs and i understand that old and new moogs do sound different, but Im still wondering why the new moogs (lp and voyager) dont sound as bright as the old moogs (source and mini). Something i love about those old moogs is how bright and sizzly they get on the top end of the sound with the filter wide open and all oscs set to sawtooth.

Though i can nail 99% of the old moog sounds on the lp and voyager (see my thread on source vs lp) the one part of the sound that i feel is still missing is a really bright top end sizzle (at around 15 khz). If i add this frequency on a high quality eq to the lp or voyager they sound exactly like a source or mini.

What is interesting is that in the manual for the lp the highest cutoff freq available from the moog lpf is 16khz which makes me think that its the oscillators that are lacking that top end that i am looking for.

I brought this topic up in this thread a while ago and thought moog might have changed this on the LP but as it uses the voyager oscillators the sound is the same, though the overdrive does add more upper harmonic richness.

http://www.moogmusic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=987

Dont get me wrong i love all these synths equally but im wondering if there is something moog or a tech could do to get these oscs brighter.Im also wondering if moog chose to cut the top end off their new oscs off at a particular frequency for a reason? Or is it that there is more low end content in the new oscs so the high freq's arent as prominent?

any thoughts/suggestions/ideas most welcome!

[till]

Of cause the Voyager could be modified. But this needs some good technician.
I don't think the Voyager's oscillators are limited in frequency content by intention. But different waveshaping circuits will give a slightly different waveshape. And therefore different harmonic levels. And the little differences are way more noticable in the high frequency content then in the bass.
And remember, even the original minimoog differ a bit in sound. And even if they got the very same oscillator board, they might show differences due to different aging and tollerances of the parts.

[godzilla]

you could stick an eq through the pre-filter loop on the voyager, get what ever freq response you want out of the VCOs.

shame the LP doesn't have a pre-filter loop

[analogbass]

Some say just the opposite-that the newer Moogs have a clarity in the highs that is superior, while not having quite the low end.

Obviously the technology is different-less discrete components. Why does it have to sound the same? So what if it's a little different, the differences are not huge anyway.

Moog lovers can get both new and old if the difference is that crucial. Either new or old are winners.

[goldphinga]

if you listen to the source with filters wide open on 2 oscs with saw waves and the voyager or phatty on the same settings the difference in the top end clarity aint small.

Theres a 4-5 db boost at 12-15 khz in the top end. Its that extra bit that means less eq'ing and also means the old moogs cut throught a mix effortlessly. Not that the new moogs dont its just there is so much more high end in the source.

Ill post examples if someone tells me where i can host the mp3's.

peas

[GregAE]

<< you could stick an eq through the pre-filter loop on the voyager, get what ever freq response you want out of the VCOs. >>

A better solution is to use an exciter (Aphex or BBE) in the Mix/Out loop to restore high frequency and clarity. I use a BBE 'Sonic Stomp' pedal for this - it adds more sizzle without adding more noise.


- G

[psound74]

Hi all, esp. GregAE,

I was wondering if putting a BBE DI-1000 after the Voyager would achieve the same effect as using the Sonic Stomp in the Mix Out/In loop on the Voyager?

What about using the DI-1000 IN the Mix loop? Would the balanced out mess up the Voyager?

(The reason I want to know is I need a DI box anyway, and the DI-1000 has Sonic Maximizer circuitry built in)

Thanks,
Patrick

[GregAE]

Hi all, esp. GregAE,

I was wondering if putting a BBE DI-1000 after the Voyager would achieve the same effect as using the Sonic Stomp in the Mix Out/In loop on the Voyager?

What about using the DI-1000 IN the Mix loop? Would the balanced out mess up the Voyager?

Thanks,
Patrick

Hi Patrick,

Placing an aural exciter after the Voyager certainly won't harm anything and should give you some sonic embellishment. Why not try it and find out?

From what I read on the BBE website, the D1000 is a direct box designed to provide a balanced signal to a mixing console (on an XLR connector). It features both active and passive operation. In active mode, the applied signal goes through the Sonic Maximizer circuity before it hits the transformer; in passive mode it only goes through the transformer. In either case, the input is converted to a balanced signal, which is not what the Voyager can accept in the Mix Out loop (either electrically or mechanically). Probably best not to attempt it, IMO, especially if you get acceptable results placing the D1000 after the Voyager.

A few folks here have reported enhanced sonic performance by placing an EQ in the Voyager Mix Out loop and boosting the top end a bit. I like this approach, not so much for the high end boost (which can add noise), but because it also allows you to sculpt the sound of the oscillators before they hit the filter. This can result in some nicely tailored sounds (or extreme sounds, or weird sounds, or...). Of course, a true Moog purist might be aghast at the idea ("Mess with the sound of those oscillators? Never!"). However, I believe that Bob Moog designed the loop for just this purpose - to give us more flexibility to create sounds. So if you have a graphic or parametric EQ available, why not give it a try? You might like what you hear.

--G

[gd]

I've used both the Aphex C and 250 as well as an EQ like Greg said above. When used judiciously I found that the C and 250 work much better than the EQ as they actually generates freq. that aren't present from the osc. and add a some harmonic distortion that I find gives the Voyager more sizzle.

[bunnyman]

Have you tried using a bias voltage to the filter CV cutoff in AND opening the filter up all the way? If you'll notice the legend on the filter frequency cutoff knob, it only goes up to 12kHz wide open. The bias should theoretically get it to open more (maybe... )

andrew bunny

[peter ripa]

to my ears the filter i cant open filter more with external voltage (assuming cutoff and env amount is high enough)