trying to make a snare tone with prodigy + cp251

Keith collins · Post by **Keith collins** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:24 am

more questions! you'd think i never learn how to do anything myself!

so i'm trying to make a snare drum sound with my prodigy using the white noise on the cp-251. so i'm running a "pulse" out of the prodigy into the cp-251 but the white noise just stays on the whole time...
is there a way i could set it up so that the pulse i run through the cp-251 "triggers" the white noise?

i read the manual, i didn't find this kind of thing anywhere.

cheveux.boucles · Post by **cheveux.boucles** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:42 am

maybe you could set up a square wave lfo to the gate input on prodigy? maybe that would trigger it...just a thought, i've never worked with a prodigy, so it's just a suggestion!

Keith collins · Post by **Keith collins** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:20 pm

wouldn't running an LFO into the prodigy trigger the prodigy?

the prodigy is already doing what i want it to, i just need to add a little white noise to it.

still, i'm making this stuff up as i go, so i'll try anything.

till · Post by **till** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:39 pm

Keith collins wrote:wouldn't running an LFO into the prodigy trigger the prodigy?
. ...

The Prodigy uses S-trigger as most Moog.
So a voltage trigger does not trigger it at all.
You need to short the mass with the pin on S-trig inputs.
There is a easy way of doing it electronically by means of an transistor.

But anyway, you feed the audio into the cp-251 ? Or do you feed the noise into the Prodigy?

Keith collins · Post by **Keith collins** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:01 pm

well, i guess that's what i want to know.

i assume i should be able to run the prodigy's audio out into the cp-251 (through the noise input) and out to my amp.

that's what i've been trying to do... but like i said before... instead of the white noise only coming through when i hit a key, it's on all the time. i just want it to come on when i hit a key and decay with the note played on the prodigy.

cheveux.boucles · Post by **cheveux.boucles** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:11 pm

the prodigy is already doing what i want it to, i just need to add a little white noise to it

my bad

Impossible Sound · Post by **Impossible Sound** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:50 pm

Audio out from the Prodigy and the noise out from the CP-251 would both need to be run through the same VCA and controlled by the same EG to do what you want.

In other words, feed the CP-251 into the Prodigy, not the other way around.

Keith collins · Post by **Keith collins** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:12 am

Impossible Sound wrote:Audio out from the Prodigy and the noise out from the CP-251 would both need to be run through the same VCA and controlled by the same EG to do what you want.

In other words, feed the CP-251 into the Prodigy, not the other way around.

i knew i was doing something wrong. thanks!

Keith collins · Post by **Keith collins** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:55 am

so i don't have an audio input on the prodigy, so i ran the noise through the VCF input... it works, in the sense that white noise is combined with oscillators... but it doesn't sound all that great.... so i think i'm still doing something wrong.

mr.obvious · Post by **mr.obvious** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:25 am

Wow, I never realized the Prodigy didn't have a noise source! I always assumed it did since all 3 of my Moogs have at least 1 (mini, micro, source). Kinda surprised it doesn't have an audio in as well.

Keith collins · Post by **Keith collins** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:19 pm

[quote="mr.obvious"]Wow, I never realized the Prodigy didn't have a noise source! I always assumed it did since all 3 of my Moogs have at least 1 (mini, micro, source). Kinda surprised it doesn't have an audio in as well.[/quote]

tell me about it. i love my prodigy, but if the MG-1 can have noise than you'd think it wouldn't have been hard to fit it on the prodigy.

till · Post by **till** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:23 pm

Using the noise as modulation source and not as audio signal being filtered is the problem.
Anyway, these kind of sound are not the ones the Prodigy was designed. or.
It is a great lead and bass synth.
But except for the sync the are no bells and whistles on it unless you modify it.

And adding an external audio in wouldn't be a rocket science modification. But I would not do it. on mine. I got other Moogs with audio ins. But they also got build in noise.

Anyway, you won't get a super snare sound from it anyway. So many aspects are important for a snare sound. And a 4 pole lowpass isn't the best filter to make a good snare drum sound.

Here are some snare programming tips from the Waldorf rack Attack manual:

Roland TR-808 Snare Drum
On the Roland TR-808, the snare drum was made of two resonating filters and a noise generator with high pass filtering. The "Tone" parameter controlled the output mix from the first and the second filters, while "Snappy" controlled the volume of the noise generator. The noise generator was routed through a separate envelope and a high pass filter.
...

Roland TR-909 Snare Drum
The TR-909 Snare Drum was made with two oscillators and two filters for noise. The two oscillators started in phase but were slightly detuned, and one of the oscillators was modulated a bit by a pitch envelope. The "Tune" parameter controlled the basic pitch of the two oscillators. The noise was split in two parts: there is always some low pass filtered noise during the whole snare drum sound, while a high pass filtered sound is routed through another envelope whose level can be controlled by the "Snappy" parameter.
...

(written by Holger "Tsching" Steinbrink for Waldorf Music AG 2003)
Full rackAttack manual with many more Programing trick and tips for drum sounds is here:
http://waldorfmusic.de/assets/files/pro ... nglish.pdf (3.22 MB PDF file)

Keith collins · Post by **Keith collins** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:45 pm

okay, that's super helpful. in the past i've gotten snare sounds i was happy with on my rogue, i just assumed it would be easy to add noise and make one on the prodigy. i guess i shouldn't have sold the rogue after all.

eric coleridge · Post by **eric coleridge** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:55 pm

Keith,

Screw the Rogue, the Prodigys much better, it just needs an audio input:
http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufactu ... ut.mod.txt

But, for what you're trying to do, the Prodigy is probably fine already. As you already found, Noise can be introduced into your Prodigy via the Filter CV or OSC input.
Try them both. The sound of White Noise as a modulation source or audio source is pretty much the same thing! This is why on many synths (Odyssey, MiniMoog) there is an option to switch to "pink" or "red" noise to use as a modulation source.

However, I think the problem is probably that the Noise source on the CP251 is actually for modulation (and thus closer to pink) and not specifically for audio. So, it may not work as well through the Prodigy's modulation inputs. You could try amplifing it or filtering it through the resonant filters on the MF105 first.

But, you could try other things too. Use your imagination. Theres a mixer on the CP251, right? I think it's a CV mixer, but it should work for audio also. So you could mix the noise and Prodigy signals.

Also there are different ways to attentuate that output. You might be able to use the Prodigy's s-trig, converted to voltage (?), to "trigger" the attentuation. Or the sample and hold can be manually "triggered" by a gate (instead of LFO).

The MF102 does some kind of gating when you play a sound into it, it allows the carrier signal to be heard and then gates it when the input signal stops. So there's probably a way to make the MF102 "gate" your noise source. You might get some good effect just ring modulating the noise source (thu the carrier input) and the Prodigy's output (thru the audio input)...