arp odyssey + prophet 5 for $400...

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mr.obvious
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Post by mr.obvious » Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:01 pm

It'd be awfully hard to find a good Odyssey for $580! Maybe if it barely works. They've been fetching more like $800-1000 this year for good ones.

eric coleridge
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Post by eric coleridge » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:08 am

OysterRock wrote: I used to have an M-111 which I think is the same organ in a different style cabinet. Its not worth much (maybe $50?)

Just be careful, those old organs are high voltage. Don't touch anything inside unless you know what you're doing. They'll fry you in a second, even if its unplugged. :shock:
Wow, thanks! You may have just saved my life. My usual mode of operation is to start tooling around and ask questions later. Although I did notice those huge capacitors and tubes, so I probably would have been a little cautious. \

But it's only worth $50? Really? No way is it worth the enormous trouble of carring it down 5 flights, across town, and then up another 3 flights to my apartment. Thanks.

eric coleridge
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Post by eric coleridge » Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:32 am

Keith collins wrote:eric,
yeah, this was my first time seeing an odyssey up close and i was amazed at how much it could do... sample and hold, noise, ring mod, etc etc... i always thought the odyssey was like the arp version of a prodigy, but it's clearly a lot more than that.
i'm anxious to get them back from the shop.
Yeah man, although I love Moogs, the Odyssey is really on a whole other level than a Prodigy (even though they sell for the same price now-a-days). It's funny how under-valued Odysseys are. To me, the only other synth that compares for sound or features is a MiniMoog.
The problem with Odysseys, and most Arps, is that they used plastic sliders which didn't age as well as Moog knobs. Also, most of them are just plain older than most Prodigys or Rogues, etc--so the Arps tend to be noisy or unreliable. But if you have a *good* tech looking at it, it should come back in great shape.
I love Odysseys because they are set up like a modular synth with switches instead of patch cords, where you can modulate any source to any destination. Unlike many Moogs where there is just one modulation source (LFO). There's even a Pedal input on the back for routable CV modulation (the Moogerfooger Exp pedal works great).
Plus, they just sound amazing, the Osc sync on the Odyssey is crazy, the ring mod is incredible... and just the raw tone of the oscillators is just very high quality and totally different than later synths.

I like Prophet 5s too, probably the best poly made, but I'm more of a monosynth enthusiast.

lg
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Post by lg » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:35 pm

eric coleridge wrote:
Keith collins wrote:eric,
yeah, this was my first time seeing an odyssey up close and i was amazed at how much it could do... sample and hold, noise, ring mod, etc etc... i always thought the odyssey was like the arp version of a prodigy, but it's clearly a lot more than that.
i'm anxious to get them back from the shop.
Yeah man, although I love Moogs, the Odyssey is really on a whole other level than a Prodigy (even though they sell for the same price now-a-days). It's funny how under-valued Odysseys are. To me, the only other synth that compares for sound or features is a MiniMoog.
much agreed. fwiw, the prices i've been seeing lately for good examples are more like: prodigy $650-800, oddysey $850-$1000, prophet 5 $1,750-$2,250...

analogbass
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Post by analogbass » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:51 pm

The Arp, in good condition, is worth about $580. There are a few different models of the Prophet 5, and some are considered of greater value than others. However on average, a Pro5 in good condition is worth about $1,250.00
The prices are nowhere as exact as that; can go much higher. Varies by condition and classified sales site.


Virtually any of those older 70s monos sound great, as in very organic in ways later synths didn't. Odyssey, Prodigy, early Roland SH series, SEMs, Yamaha CS series..all great, all with their own individual characteristics and abundant warmth, in most cases.

lg
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Post by lg » Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:25 pm

analogbass wrote:
The Arp, in good condition, is worth about $580. There are a few different models of the Prophet 5, and some are considered of greater value than others. However on average, a Pro5 in good condition is worth about $1,250.00
The prices are nowhere as exact as that; can go much higher. Varies by condition and classified sales site.


Virtually any of those older 70s monos sound great, as in very organic in ways later synths didn't. Odyssey, Prodigy, early Roland SH series, SEMs, Yamaha CS series..all great, all with their own individual characteristics and abundant warmth, in most cases.
no denying that they all sound great. i thiink what a few of us are saying is that the odyssey is a definite step up in terms of complexity from the prodigy. i agree with you though, the prices i've been seeing are an order of magnitude higher than the quoted $580 for an odyssey and $1,250 for a prophet V, assuming good/vg condition, which i think would be a prerequisite for anyone getting into an older analog synth such as the odyssey (though i've heard a number of people say the arp osc's are more stable than the moogs- don't have real-world experience of this, however), unless you either know a very good tech who also happens to be your brother-in-law, or you get 'em for a steal like our thread-starter did. :wink:

analogbass
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Post by analogbass » Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:12 pm

No doubt the Odyssey had a lot going for it-for flexibility and good sound, the best rival would be the Pro-One, though the sounds are quite different. The Arps, Moogs, Yamahas and SEMs of the 70s have the edge when it comes to ultimate warmth.

The Arps had a clear advantage in oscillator stability, it was even part of their advertizing literature. The later Minis' oscillators were just as stable though, and even some of the earlier oscillator models were quite reasonable; it varied from one to the next.

eric coleridge
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Post by eric coleridge » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:55 pm

Thinking about relative values, in terms of it's original value and it's sound and features, to me, the Odyssey is well worth $600 and up. That's a fraction of what it cost when it was new.

The Prodigy, on the other hand, while it's definitely a great sounding synth, is now selling for several times it's original price. So, it's (at least)a little over-valued. But it does have wooden sides, and looks a bit like a Mini... so it's a trade off.

Keith collins
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Post by Keith collins » Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:57 pm

so i talked to my tech who's looking at the boards now and it doesn't look so hot.
i guess the arp makes sound, but has a really low output level, and a lot of the sliders are unusable(stiff, not responsive)... he recommends replacing the majority of the sliders. but he thinks the low output level might be more serious... what ever that means.

the prophet 5 rev2 puts out good sound, but a number of knobs don't work, the keyboard cuts in and out, and it's horribly out of tune... and needs to be calibrated.

i called wine country, but it turns out they only work on rev3's. i didn't realize this but rev2's don't seem to be very popular nowadays. apparently they're so unstable and complicated nobody wants to touch them.

my tech says he's down to try and restore them, but it would be very expensive, take a long time, and he can't promise they'll actually work when he's all done.

what do you guys think? are they worth sinking the money into? or should i try to recoup what i've spent by selling them for parts?
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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:44 pm

If I may chime in here. :)

Off the cuff, your tech's remarks scare me a bit.
If he has a problem with something like low output from an Ody, DO NOT let him attempt work on the P5.
P5's can be a nightmare, but a low volume situation with the Ody doesn't sound like a huge ordeal. If your tech doesn't appear confident, find another.
All Odys have an extremely simple VCA circuit too.
If the low volume problem isn't in the filter... and the tech can't fix such a simple VCA... run!

Unless a slider actually has a worn out element, it can usually come back to life fine.
Problem is that many "techs" think the way to clean a slider is to spray something in them and that's that. Wrong. The dirt is still in there, just moved around and with some dissolved lube that allows it to slide easier. When the lube dries up, things are still bad in them. It's like adding fresh oil to dirty oil in your car.
The level seems fine, but the oil is still dirty.
This is a warning too: a tech can make a synth seem fine on the bench, but get it home and wait a bit and problems with sliders can resurface.
You want to avoid that trap.
Ask for a warranty. Any tech worth their salt should be able to back up their work for 1-3 months, which is a reasonable amount of time to see how things really are.
I sell Ody compatible sliders, but if this guy can't solve a low volume issue, he might cause more problems attempting replacement.
Also be aware that early (usually white) Odys can take more time and effort to get right. They have more adjustments inside to calibrate and several problem areas which were changed in later models.
I have a small page here that might help illustrate this:
http://www.synthfool.com/whtvsblkody.html

In my opinion, the P5 is probably worth more for parts than the trouble and expense in repairing it. I stopped working on them years ago and so have a few other techs I know. Great synth when they work, but often horrible to repair.

Excellent deal regardless. Good for you!

Keith collins
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Post by Keith collins » Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:24 pm

okay, that's super helpful.
the tech i go to is good... i didn't mean to make him sound incompetent.
i've trusted this guy with my prodigy and opus, and he always does a great job...

he didn't say he had a problem with the low output, he was just mentioning all the things wrong with it, and when i asked if the low output could be fixed with a good cleaning, he said he thinks it might be more serious than that, but that there's no way to know without opening it up and getting inside.

for the arp sliders he said the arp's biggest downfall are it's sliders and that when they get stiff and sticky you can't really fix them, cause when you clean them you're cleaning out what lubricant is left and then they can stick even more.

so... just to clarify, is odyssey restoration pretty common? cause it doesn't sound like prophet5 rev2 are... and if it's possible to save one of these keyboards for less than it would cost to buy one that works i'd like to try.

btw it's a black odyssey.

can you sell me a complete set of odyssey sliders?
thanks!
Prodigy336A ::: Opus 3 ::: Big Briar Theremin ::: MF-102 ::: MF-105 ::: CP-251 ::: MPC1000

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Kevin Lightner
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Post by Kevin Lightner » Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:18 pm

Sorry if I read into your post incorrectly.
for the arp sliders he said the arp's biggest downfall are it's sliders and that when they get stiff and sticky you can't really fix them, cause when you clean them you're cleaning out what lubricant is left and then they can stick even more.
I'm not sure I understand this above.
They CAN be relubed after a cleaning.
My solution (no pun intended) is not what everyone will try though. I actually give these things a full immersion bath. Water won't hurt them if done correctly and it will remove all the gunk in the sliders as well as any previous garbage on the board and connectors that can cause problems.
I use softened hot water, Simplegreen detergent, followed by a blow out with high pressure air. Works great, but may give the unwary a heart attack.

Here's a pic of Flea's (Red Hot Chili Peppers) Ody getting a bath.
http://www.synthfool.com/openresources/fleabath.jpg
This Ody came out great and I've never received a complaint on it.

I only have linear slider types in one value (100K linear) and they have black shafts.
The Ody uses three different types though and the others are hard to find.
Some were on Ebay recently, but I don't know if any are still available.
But again, unless they are truly worn out, they can be cleaned, relubed and will likely work great. A spray just won't do this sort of cleaning though.

eric coleridge
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Post by eric coleridge » Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:51 pm

Keith,

Not to re-iterate all of what Kevin Lightner just said, but, if I were you I would try to find a tech who has worked on these specific synths before. He might be a great tech, but if he's not familiar with these instruments, you probably won't get very efficent service.

I've had 2 Odysseys and an Omni with these sliders, and each one of them had sticky and occasionally completely stuck sliders. They were all able to be cleaned out and working almost %100. Also, this could very likely be the most of the problem with your Odyssey.

I have no tech background and I did this service myself. I should say that most respectable synth-techs I've talked to say that owners really shouldn't attempt these repairs-- but if you're willing to set aside these well-advised caveats-- you could probably fix much of what's wrong with the Odyssey yourself for free.

Also, there are alot of componets that are typical troublemakers in Odysseys, and there's a ton of info on this subject on the net. This might lead you to think that Odysseys are problem synths or money synths, but in my experience most of the problems that Odysseys experience are minor, and pretty simple to fix.

So, even if you need a proper tech to service it, it shouldn't cost that much.

Last, even though you may find it difficult to find someone to service your Prophet, I know that alot of people treasure the REV 2, so you can at least sell it for a good price (even in it's current condition) if you decide it's not worth keeping.

Keith collins
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Post by Keith collins » Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:11 am

alright...
i really appreciate you guys taking the time to help me out on this stuff.
what my guy said about not being able to fix the sliders didn't make a lot of sense to me either. i'll mention it to him again.

i'm happy to hand these synths over to someone more qualified, even if it means shipping it. if anyone can recommend someone i'd appreciate it. it's just that i've been looking high and low in seattle for one, and so far this guy is the best i've found.
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analogbass
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Post by analogbass » Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:05 am

Agreed, you should ship if necessary to get them fixed by someone knowledgeable, take some time to find someone.

In both cases get an estimate on what it will take to fix them; if the Prophet's in decent physical shape and the repair's not more than several hundred it's worth fixing because Rev 2's are now desirable on Ebay. You can even take pics prior to shipping them off, and then have them sent to Ebay bidders straight from the shop.

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