arp odyssey + prophet 5 for $400...

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DBER
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Post by DBER » Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:37 pm

had to bring this up:
my "one" deal of my life was a Mono/Poly and a Polysix pre-battery change with flight cases for $75 each. Both were perfect cosmetically, and now both are working perfectly after replacing the dreaded klm-367 board on the p-6. total cost: $250.

sorry-- i felt the need to brag about that one :)

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Post by Keith collins » Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:47 am

museslave wrote:
Keith... I don't know what the MS-20 is going for today, but if it's still under $1000, that's my suggestion.
unfortunately it might be too late!
http://cgi.ebay.com/KORG-MS20-MS-20-Mon ... dZViewItem
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Post by museslave » Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:49 am

Keith collins wrote:
unfortunately it might be too late!
http://cgi.ebay.com/KORG-MS20-MS-20-Mon ... dZViewItem
Take heart, Keith! That's in England... they always go for more over there...
But I'm still not entirely sure they go for less over here... I haven't been following them for awhile... last time I looked, they were pushing $900... but that was awhile ago. In any case, they very worthwhile!
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Post by Keith collins » Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:03 am

[quote="museslave"] In any case, they very worthwhile![/quote]

i'll keep my eye out. are they known for being stable? or do you think you just had the luck of the draw?(i guess bad luck in your case)
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Post by CTRLSHFT » Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:09 am

museslave wrote:
Keith collins wrote:
unfortunately it might be too late!
http://cgi.ebay.com/KORG-MS20-MS-20-Mon ... dZViewItem
Take heart, Keith! That's in England... they always go for more over there...
But I'm still not entirely sure they go for less over here... I haven't been following them for awhile... last time I looked, they were pushing $900... but that was awhile ago. In any case, they very worthwhile!
i just sold mine on ebay for 925, so yeah, thats about the going rate. I bought it 3 years ago for 750 though. Guess it's pretty much a luck of the draw.
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Post by museslave » Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:58 am

Keith collins wrote:are they known for being stable? or do you think you just had the luck of the draw?(i guess bad luck in your case)
I don't know that I've seen people talk about it as much as I do... but I have had one MS-20 and two MS-10s at different times, and they were all very stable. The MS-50 was VERY stable compared to a lot of synths, but not quite as stable as the MS-20 (which is why I was more fond of it, hee).

I'm relatively certain that the stability is consistent. I think it was a Japanese thing!

(disclaimer: of course there are going to be less-stable MS-20s... it is analog, after all... [I have to say that so Kevin Lightner doesn't come down on me!])

But yeah... they are definitely worth the money, even with the inflation. I still would like to have one again, someday... despite the irritatingly stable oscillator and power-that-doesn't-befit-a-synth-from-the-70s, I still loved it. I ended up selling my MS-20 and MS-50 (which were living as one device in a wooden frame) to buy my dot com modular (or, part of it). So, I didn't get rid of my MS-20 for distaste, but rather to buy something I wanted more.
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Post by eric coleridge » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:25 pm

I currently have an MS20 in my studio, but it's not mine.

I see them for sale usually between 950-1150... but every now and then they'll go for 800 or 850... You just have to be patient if you want to save a few hundred dollars; To me, it's always worth waiting. But I could definitely understand if someone didn't have time to check e-bay everyday...

But it's one of my favorite synths, mostly because of the filter. The semi-modular part of it is really kind of lacking. It has much more patchability than the average synth, but alot of the "patches" could be reproduced on a pre-wired synth with good routing.

still, if you don't have a full modular, it's definitely fun to have some patchability
(as opposed to none). But after you get the hang of the MS, you quickly start to want to have more patchability.

For instance, theres no output for the oscillators. Oscillators outputs would be a big benifit and allow you to process them seperately before going to the VCF, VCA, etc. Also, I really like audio OSC modulation of filters, etc... which you can't do on the MS. Also, the Osc CV is ganged for both; no individual osc CV
It would also be great if the Ring Mod was patchable. As it is, it's hard-wired to both Oscillators. Even one input (replacing an Osc) would have been great.

Also, the VCA isn't entirely externally controlable, and the Env is hard-wired to it. There's a seperate VCA2, but it's not very strong and is meant to be a voltage VCA. Env1 is very weak (only AD, and very slow), and the good fast one, Env2, is only patchable as an inverse envelope. So, the envelope patchability is overall very weak.

So, actaully, overall, the MS20 is rather weak at being a modular synth.

However, the filter section is fantastic!!!!, and is as good or better than any other synth I've played (except the Mini; and some Arp filters can be better at certain things). I've never played an Oberheim SEM, but from what I've heard of it, it's likely on the same level too.
Having the High Pass and Low Pass in series gives the MS20 so much versatility and special character. Each filter on it's own is very good, but when they're combined it's greater than the sum of the two. Just fantastic, and I'm not even referring to the special "grittiness" of the resonance (which is also very cool), but rather the spectacular tonal bandpass qualities that come from two resonant filters together: Extremely punchy, and really great for percussive sounds of all varieties (crazy snares, kicks, toms, fx, etc.). Nothing I've played is better for great super percussive analog drum sounds.

Also, it's wonderful for external sound processing... with a pre-amp, additional 1-pole fixed high and low pass filters, great envelope follower, quirky pitch follower (!!!), etc... again, one of the best synths for processing external sound.

The oscillators I've always felt are somewhat weak/thin sounding in some ways, but they have a good array of footings and waveforms (triangle is a big plus for deep bass sounds), and, to me, they're as good (and rather similar sounding) as the oscillators on a Rogue, or even Prodigy. I can sit a Rogue next to an MS20 and have them sound identical on a wide variety of sounds. Alot of this is also the versatility of the MS20 filter section though too.

Finally, theres no oscillator sync. That would have been nice as well.
But, obviously, every synth can't do eveything.
But, despite it's many short-comings, the MS20 has alot of good features that make it a good buy, even at $1000. I'd take an MS20 over a $800 Prodigy any day.

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Post by Keith collins » Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:48 am

so would you say the oscillators are stable? i mean, i know the ms20 has some nice features but i would be serious about getting one if it had a reputation for being reliable.
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Post by CTRLSHFT » Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:10 am

Keith collins wrote:so would you say the oscillators are stable? i mean, i know the ms20 has some nice features but i would be serious about getting one if it had a reputation for being reliable.
dunno if you're talking to anyone in particular, but my ms20 never once required a master tuning adjustment. rock solid, regardless of a humid summer day with the windows open, etc.

They're totally a great investment on many fronts.. the ability to use it as an filter/fx box, or control the ms20 via another pitch source (voice, guitar, another synth) is reeeeeeally cool. as a synth i think it sounds pretty fantastic too; it's lacking some features like PWM (via lfo) and syncing, but despite that you can coax TONS of unique sounds of it, thanks to the phenominally versitile filter.
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Post by eric coleridge » Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:35 am

Keith collins wrote:so would you say the oscillators are stable? i mean, i know the ms20 has some nice features but i would be serious about getting one if it had a reputation for being reliable.
ah, oh, guess I got carried away there... but, you know, it's good to get testimonials on these synths in liew of actually playing them...

But yes, very stable oscillators.

But, you know, I find that alot of my synth's oscillators have been fine...

There's really only a few that I seem to remember being remarkably unstable (prodigy, minimoog)...

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Post by Keith collins » Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:54 pm

[quote="eric coleridge"]

There's really only a few that I seem to remember being remarkably unstable (prodigy, minimoog)...[/quote]

that's funny, every analog synth i've owned has had trouble staying in tune... and most of them were moogs. :)
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Post by eric coleridge » Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:36 pm

Just off hand, I don't remember the MG-1, or Rogue, or Micro, or Multi, or Sonix Six being unstable at all particularly.

I also found that the Odyssey was fine after being on for a few minutes, same for the Korg MonoPoly.

The MS20 is quite good, same goes for the sh101, sh09...

pretty much every polyphonic I've played is good, except broken ones, and the Prophet 5.

But. it's entirely possible that I'm not as picky as some people (or maybe I've just had good luck).[/url]

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Post by Keith collins » Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:06 pm

you must have good luck cause my rogue was terrible... it would go in and out of tune depending on your proximity to it... i'm not kidding.
my opus 3 is rock solid though, i wish they were all like that.
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Post by museslave » Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:07 pm

My Sonic Six was somewhat unstable... in the sense that it did have to be tuned once it was turned on, and perhaps later if it was used for a long time.
But let's keep some perspective here: "Unstable" really truly means that you have to tune it a lot... like the Moog modulars, where you had to tune between takes. Yes, even I would be irritated by that. A synthesizer that requires tuning at some point is merely an analog synthesizer. An analog synthesizer that rarely requires tuning is... well, likely a late seventies Korg. ; )
Every single one of my synths has been at least to some degree "unstable" in comparison to the late-seventies Korgs I have had or have.
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Post by museslave » Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:18 pm

eric coleridge wrote:The semi-modular part of it is really kind of lacking. It has much more patchability than the average synth, but alot of the "patches" could be reproduced on a pre-wired synth with good routing.
Ever the semantics freak, I have to say:
I might agree that the semi-modular part is lacking in comparison to modular, but as a semi-modular, I didn't find it really lacking at all. The MS-20 has great functionality without the patchbay, but with it... it measures up to ANY non-patchbay analog, and exceeds most! Does that mean it has everything I wish it did? Well, no... but still... pretty danged powerful!
eric coleridge wrote:But after you get the hang of the MS, you quickly start to want to have more patchability.
I want to disagree with this, but can't. That's OUR problem, though. ; )
eric coleridge wrote:So, actaully, overall, the MS20 is rather weak at being a modular synth.
Well, it depends on how many modules you're comparing to, but yes... I agree that there is a lot of hard-wiring in there... but I guess that's why we call it "semi-modular." Get an MS-50, and you suddenly are very excited about what your MS-20 does! That's what happened to me! (Okay, yes, I know you probably won't find an MS-50 now, and certainly not for a reasonable price, but still!)


eric coleridge wrote:Having the High Pass and Low Pass in series gives the MS20 so much versatility and special character. Each filter on it's own is very good, but when they're combined it's greater than the sum of the two. Just fantastic, and I'm not even referring to the special "grittiness" of the resonance (which is also very cool), but rather the spectacular tonal bandpass qualities that come from two resonant filters together: Extremely punchy, and really great for percussive sounds of all varieties (crazy snares, kicks, toms, fx, etc.). Nothing I've played is better for great super percussive analog drum sounds.
I totally agree... but for me, this combination was TOO powerfu, and ended up doing things that to my ear exceeded the capability of the standard analog synth. I was often accused of cheating on my analog purism. ; )

eric coleridge wrote:Also, it's wonderful for external sound processing... with a pre-amp, additional 1-pole fixed high and low pass filters, great envelope follower, quirky pitch follower (!!!), etc... again, one of the best synths for processing external sound.
TOTALLY. It is SO fun to use in that respect!
eric coleridge wrote:The oscillators I've always felt are somewhat weak/thin sounding in some ways, but they have a good array of footings and waveforms (triangle is a big plus for deep bass sounds),
Agreed. I mean, I don't think they're BAD... just lacking in comparison to say... Minimoog.
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