Behringer Model D - $400

[willi]

Well someone had to link it...

Depending on the feedback we will then decide if we move further and build a first prototype.

Our targeted retail price is around US$ 400.

Analog Synthesizer with 3 VCOs, 24 dB Ladder Filter, LFO, 16-Voice Poly Chain and Eurorack Format

1. Analog synthesizer with triple VCO design
2. Reproduction of original “D Type” with matched transistors and JFETs
3. 0.1% Thin Film resistors and Polyphenyline Sulphide capacitors for frequency stability
4. Analog signal path based on authentic VCO, VCF and VCA designs
5. 5 variable oscillator shapes with pulse width variation
6. Classic 24 dB ladder filter with resonance
7. Fully analog triangle/square wave LFO
8. Switchable low/high pass filter mode
9. 16-voice Midi Poly Chain allows combining multiple synthesizers for up to 16-voice polyphony
10. Overdrive circuit
11. Noise generator
12. Complete Eurorack solution – main module can be transferred to a standard Eurorack case
13. 46 controls for real-time access of all important parameters
14. External audio input for processing external sound sources
15. Low and high level outputs
16. Comprehensive MIDI implementation with MIDI channel and Voice Priority selection
17. 3-Year Warranty Program

Uli

http://www.matrixsynth.com/2017/03/behr ... del-d.html
http://www.matrixsynth.com/2017/03/new- ... nders.html

Apparently this particular discussion online started here;
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electro ... -idea.html

Let the consternation commence!

[stiiiiiiive]

Yeah, a french forum is already chatty about that
Apprently, Uli B. announced $500 few days after - not verified.

[HookedOnSonics]

Ok, so I know we're going to put forth apples and oranges, but seems like a bold statement from Uli. Looking at the young man who heads up Spear Electronics and his undertaking this summer to recreate the OBX in a modular form, and his statement that he had 3,000 transistor in his recreation, and that he is hoping to come in around $3500.00 USD this summer, seems way above fair offer if we assume a good transistor might average around .99 cents.

We could not help but get caught up in the chatter, it's everywhere, which is probably really good for Moog ... "Free Advertisement". One thing we did take away from the chatter is the LACK of factual knowledge on how a REAL Model D is laid out ... components and price associated with each plus the fact that each Real Moog is hand crafted, not machine blasted.

At the end of the day, IMO, if you had a choice, would you want a real Stradivarius or a Clone?

Finally, heard Disney has picked up the chatter and is looking at producing a new Movie ... Synthesizer's, the Clone Wars ...

[thealien666]

As much as I enjoy the DeepMind 12 (despite its shortcomings for now, firmware related), I think Uli Behringer should think twice before spitting on other synth manufacturers. Recreating a Minimoog D faithfully, to 100% sound wise, has been tried before, again and again, by many people and companies over the years. And only the latest Minimoog D from Moog Music Inc can really match it.

And from the pics, what he's proposing is a desktop version, without a keyboard, without mod wheels, and without a wooden case, and with and added external PSU (wall wart). So right there, it's sure to cost less.

[GregAE]

As much as I enjoy the DeepMind 12 (despite its shortcomings for now, firmware related)...

As someone considering a DM12, I'm curious to know what those firmware shortcomings are.

[thealien666]

The latest one is more severe (at least on my unit, but others on Gearslutz and the Behringer forum have experienced the same thing on theirs), and it shows up as a crash of the keyboard scanning routine (the last notes played just hang), and I have to power cycle the synth off and on to reset it. It seems related only to the very latest firmware revision (1.0.4). Behringer's engineers are very aware of the problem, and a new revision is in the works that should remedy that.

The other annoying thing is the VCA Envelope cannot seem to open and close the VCAs smoothly. It has even been acknowledged by Uli himself, and is caused by a "noise gate" (software or hardware I don't know) implemented to prevent oscillator bleeding on low audio levels. Again, they're supposedly working on a solution for that too. It makes it difficult to create smooth pads and strings, because the audio level arrives abruptly with medium/long attack times (at around 20% level) and also cuts out from that same level with long release times.

I still recommend getting one though, because it's a great sounding machine with lots of cool features (the modulation matrix is great), and will eventually probably work perfectly for not a lot of money.
If you get one, just make sure that you don't install version 1.0.4 for now. stick to 1.0.3 until a newer revision is available. And also perform a full calibration of the whole synth (it takes 56 minutes) to make sure everything is optimal.

I especially like the 12 db mode of the low pass filter. It reminds me a lot of the SEM one (though not exactly the same, but very "musical").

Anyway, the Behringer DM12 thread on Gearslutz is pretty much up-to-date with what's happening with the DM12, with Uli himself chiming in often.

[GregAE]

The other annoying thing is the VCA Envelope cannot seem to open and close the VCAs smoothly. It has even been acknowledged by Uli himself, and is caused by a "noise gate" (software or hardware I don't know) implemented to prevent oscillator bleeding on low audio levels. Again, they're supposedly working on a solution for that too. It makes it difficult to create smooth pads and strings, because the audio level arrives abruptly with medium/long attack times (at around 20% level) and also cuts out from that same level with long release times.

The noise gate issue is a bit troubling to learn about, especially as it appears to be a band-aid to address design shortcomings (not achieving a good low-noise spec?). Hopefully a solution is forthcoming...

I still recommend getting one though, because it's a great sounding machine with lots of cool features (the modulation matrix is great), and will eventually probably work perfectly for not a lot of money. If you get one, just make sure that you don't install version 1.0.4 for now. stick to 1.0.3 until a newer revision is available. And also perform a full calibration of the whole synth (it takes 56 minutes) to make sure everything is optimal.

Agreed on the price/performance front - there's a lot to like! Assuming all new units come with v1.0.4 installed, is it possible to roll-back the OS to a previous version?

Anyway, the Behringer DM12 thread on Gearslutz is pretty much up-to-date with what's happening with the DM12, with Uli himself chiming in often.

Indeed it is! Thanks for the details!

[thealien666]

Assuming all new units come with v1.0.4 installed, is it possible to roll-back the OS to a previous version?

Yes indeed. All that is needed is a USB cable and a Mac/PC.
The 1.0.3 firmware is still available on the Behringer DeepMind 12 forum.

[MC]

The other annoying thing is the VCA Envelope cannot seem to open and close the VCAs smoothly. It has even been acknowledged by Uli himself, and is caused by a "noise gate" (software or hardware I don't know) implemented to prevent oscillator bleeding on low audio levels.

Are you kidding me?

That's a great big Red Flag. Noise gate on a polysynth is fixing the symptom instead of curing the disease, and a blatant admission that Behringer doesn't know what the f### they are doing. If they can't get a quiet VCA then I have no faith in their synths. These were problems that have been solved since the 1970s.

[willi]

Well, even the Prophet 12 had some leakage..

[sunny pedaal]

if that bothers then an external noise gate might do the trick just as easily....
is it the quality of the vca's ?

[GregAE]

Apparently, Behringer is about to release a firmware update that addresses the VCA Envelope issue, corrects a number of other small niggles, and adds a few new effects (reported on Gearslutz).

[thealien666]

The new firmware was released today, and I can confirm that the VCA issue has been fixed on my Behringer DeepMind 12 (as well as some other bugs too). It was definitely software related and not hardware thankfully. So far, so good...
Although it takes 51 minutes ( ) to perform a full automated calibration of the synth, and sometimes some sections need to be redone once more for all the voices to show pass.

A DSI product this is definitely not, with their under one minute, or so, of full synth calibration on their Prophet 6 and OB6...

But I digress, this is a Moog Music forum... Sorry, I have nothing to say about my Minimoog D, other than it is performing absolutely perfectly, despite being 42 years old !

[HookedOnSonics]

But I digress, this is a Moog Music forum... Sorry, I have nothing to say about my Minimoog D, other than it is performing absolutely perfectly, despite being 42 years old !

That was a close one, for a minute there we thought Uli had cloned the Moog Forum ...

[thealien666]

I'm sure Uli is here under a pseudonym, spying on us...

And, as I said earlier, I seriously doubt that Behringer could achieve the level of quality and, more importantly, the sound of a genuine Minimoog D for $400. And even if he did, there will always be a plus value of getting the real thing, crafted by hand by passionate and talented artists. Not some copy made in series in a chinese factory, no matter how modern it might be.

A Moog is a musical instrument first, an electronic device second.