monophonic keyboard chops

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EricK
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Post by EricK » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:13 pm

ozy wrote:This must be TOP in the INTAGTLW department ["I need to always get the last word"]. You posted on three forums today, in each case saying only "I don't have the time of posting today, but I have something to say anyway, see you tomorrow". :wink:
You would be further ahead playing your synthesizer instead of following me around the forums critisizing how I post. Gump hasn't participated in this thread since 2006, you might have noticed that had you bothered to look instead of wondering what im doing and putting words in my mouth.
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CZ Rider
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Post by CZ Rider » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:36 pm

+1 for the SOS series, quite a bit of info there!
Here is the index all on one page:
Sound on Sound Synthesizer Secrets
ozy wrote: Some of the chapters are wonderful.

For example, the ones about Physical Modeling with Analogue Synths ( :shock: 35 years playing synths, I had never thought of that):

in short, it uses a short-reverb, inserted between the oscillators and the filter, as a way of emulating the behaviour of air in a wind instrument.
I read that chapter too! That is an old Keith Emerson trick he used on his Moog modular set-up live, way back. I was trying to get some of those sounds patched on the modular, and that was a key part of the Emerson patch. Had the 901's into CP mixer, into the 905 reverb, then the 904A filter. Noticed this in a photo from 1971.
Kent wrote:I just stumbled across this thread. It reminded me of this video. A great and simple idea.
First time I saw that video. Thanks! The percussion on a Hammond organ works the same way. It was all the Model D had, as there was no velocity or aftertouch. But it had wheels!
I fondly remember the first time I listened to "Birds of Fire", and was floored with Jan Hammer's Minimoog solo (1973?). It was so guitar like! I tried to get that sound with my Mini, setting up the guitar patch from the sound chart book. Mine did not sound anything like that? Fortunatly for me, "The Mahavishnu Orchestra" did a TV spot on "Don Kirshner's Rock Concert"! That's when I saw how he did it with the pitch wheel. There was no internet back then, not even a dedicated keyboard mag. I realized, it was 50% the tone, and 50% how he played that tone.
A big part of the emulation, either a flute or guitar, is playing like that instrument. 30 some years later, guitar-like leads on keys are still one of my favorites! Pisses off a lot of guitar players though. I have actually taken my portable rig to Guitar Center to audition different amps and effects. Man do I get some dirty looks from those guitar players? :lol:


Not a Mini, but a Casio I use to get my guitar like tone. Moog modular on bass though!
Guitar Like Solo on a Casio CZ with Moog Bass MP3,3MEGS
It's all in the pitch wheel and how you play it!

Electrong
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Re: Old Thread Revival FTW!!

Post by Electrong » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:11 pm

Kent wrote:I just stumbled across this thread. It reminded me of this video. A great and simple idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mycMgZE7PdI
I have seen this, that's a good way to answer part of Gump's question from 2006.

The other way I would certainly answer it would be to say, yes, it takes time. You're rewarded from the time you continue to play the instrument. Technical facility comes with practice as does knowledge of the instrument.

I would also point out something Chick Corea pointed out long ago, with a mono synth or a piano, if you're playing scales, runs, or arpeggios, you can utilize both hands and split the notes up and this essentially makes it twice as easy to perform runs of notes twice as fast.

Ozy you need to take a chill pill.

jeepo
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Post by jeepo » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:57 pm

museslave wrote: A synthesizer is not a piano. A synthesizer does not need to be polyphonic, it does not need to be touch-sensitive, it does not need to have weighted action. All of those things are fine, but they are foreign to the original concept of the synthesizer, and only became desireable whe people wanted a synthesizer to act like a piano.
Personally I hate weighted keys, and often find myself reaching for wheels, whenever i play a keyed instrument, including the piano.

This thread is about synth technique, lately i have been thinking that adding synth techniques, as dynamic markings, to standard musical notation may help to secure the synthesizer's place as its own instrument, in the eyes of the musical masses, who, in my experience, generally view the synth as a way to replace other instruments, or as a novelty, not as an instrument itself.
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Post by CTRLSHFT » Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:47 pm

jeepo wrote:...to secure the synthesizer's place as its own instrument, in the eyes of the musical masses, who, in my experience, generally view the synth as a way to replace other instruments, or as a novelty, not as an instrument itself.
I think the musical masses wouldn't think this so much if more music wasn't using crappy rompler workstations and the musicians focused more on analog synths. :)
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Electrong
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Post by Electrong » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:31 pm

jeepo wrote: lately i have been thinking that adding synth techniques, as dynamic markings, to standard musical notation may help to secure the synthesizer's place as its own instrument, in the eyes of the musical masses, who, in my experience, generally view the synth as a way to replace other instruments, or as a novelty, not as an instrument itself.
That is already done via MIDI and real time knob memory. Potentially every knob turn and filter sweep can be recorded to a sequencer. It is the old acoustic instrument notation that has its shortcomings and falls short for the accurate writing of music. Still, that's a good idea if you find yourself dealing with staff paper and music. Someone should come up with some symbols to indicate the various knob twiddles and wheel turns..

EricK
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Post by EricK » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:00 am

Jeepo,
I was playing a piano not too long ago and I was really feeling expressive because I had the house to myself. I was really getting into it, maybe a little too expressive, in the heat of the moment I reached over to the piece of wood (Where people put their drinks, cigarettes, etc) for the mod wheel, and lo and behold, there was none.

I know what you mean about using wheels lololol.


I think the type of notation that you are reffering to is part of the continuing evolution of notation into and beyond the 21st century.
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latigid on
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Post by latigid on » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:55 am

EricK wrote:I think the type of notation that you are reffering to is part of the continuing evolution of notation into and beyond the 21st century.
They did try this, at least back in the '80s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN8_brP9-8E

About 3:30 in they talk about their notation. A bit fuzzy, though.

Anyway, an old favourite video!

jeepo
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Post by jeepo » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:25 am

While on the subject of wheels, it'd cool if moog were to build a box, a lovely box, throw in four lfos, and four wheels, then maybe midi, and bam! a mp 201 for your hands, now add cv allowing for foot pedals. multi wheel 201?
Stage II, MF-102, MF-105m, MF-107, paia theremin, akai s2000, yamaha pss 680, yamaha cp 25, and other stuff

ozy

Post by ozy » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:59 am

jeepo wrote:if moog were to build a box, four lfos and four wheels, then maybe midi, and bam! a mp 201 for your hands, now add cv allowing for foot pedals. multi wheel 201?
Good idea.

Somebody asked for a joystick as well.

Not a bad idea: in the two possible meanings:

a bend+mod joystick (roland style)

or

a coil-less joystick (the kind you find on prophet vs and wavestation keyboards).

One thing I noticed in these forums:

the touch surface seems to be the least loved and/or least discussed feature of the Voyager.

:?:

Me myself I don't use it a lot.

EricK
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Post by EricK » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:25 pm

Ozy,
On Roland joysticks...

My Father bought a Fantom G8 and the Roland KC880 amp, the fantom is great and seemingly well built EXCEPT for the LHC which is a big block of plastic and a really crappy joystick. I think thats the only thing that Id like to see changed on the Fantom. Its not a really wonderfully solid piece of plastic either, the surface is pourus and hollow. Definately not one that Id feel comfortable going to town on like that of the Voyager.

When you own a Voyager, I guess it spoils you, or raises your expectations of other companies.

Eric
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ozy

Post by ozy » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:35 pm

EricK wrote:the fantom is great and seemingly well built EXCEPT for the LHC which is a big block of plastic and a really crappy joystick.
I didn't ask for a Roland or Yamaha or Korg joystick. :? :x

I asked for a Moog joystick. 8) :D

Of course a mass market workstation has crappy plastic components.

That doesn't make the CONCEPT of a joystick [tool for mixing signals along two coordinates] any less interesting.


Indeed, the Voyager pitch bend wheel is not the best tool for pitch-bending, and the Voyager would benefit from more tools.

[footnote: Moog people, if you read the above, DON'T replace the pitch bend wheel with something else. Just think about ADDING an external tool which includes more wheels, more pedals AND a joystick for "vector" performance]




Oh, by the way, Eric. I didn't answer last night, but now that you mention it:

Erick: "Ozy, You would be further ahead playing your synthesizer if you etc etc"

yes, mommy.

and

Electrong: "Ozy you need to take a chill pill."

Yes, Auntie Henrietta.

:roll:

EricK
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Post by EricK » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:52 pm

I tried to ignore your stupid comment and give you the benefit of the doubt, but obviously youd rather be a douche so be all that you can be.

Respectfully,
Eric
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ozy

Post by ozy » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:01 pm

stick to comments on instruments,

and you will avoid retorts.

Better: stick to comments on instruments YOU know something about, you use, you really own and play,

and you will not be everywhere at once, getting deserved retorts.

Sir Nose
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Post by Sir Nose » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:26 pm

blah, blah, blah

Now, back to the techniques!!!

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