Sub 37 vs Model D

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EricK
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Re: Sub 37 vs Model D

Post by EricK » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:32 pm

If someone wants a Telecaster and a vintage tube amp, they are doing so for tone. Those guys aren't complaining if their guitar isn't midi equipped with different tunings going to a modern modeling amp with tons of effects.

The Model D wasn't designed to be flexible, it was designed to get the modular tone to working musicians who couldn't afford a modular or couldn't figure out how to use one. It's not an instrument that one goes to for modern synthesis techniques. If someone didn't have a synth, a Model D might not be the one I would recommend. But if someone has other means to perform complex synthesis and wants a tone machine, then absolutely the Model D will deliver.

I don't own and haven't played a Sub 37, but I own a Model D, and other modern Moog synths, and I heard a Sub 37 on Stevie Wonder's PA system when he came through last year. It had the recognizable Moog sound, but it didn't "pop." Everytime that I wasn't paying attention and they used the Sub37, I immediately remembered that there was one up there. It doesn't move anything inside me like the Model D does. The D's oscillators are simply more raspy.
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sub guy
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Re: Sub 37 vs Model D

Post by sub guy » Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:52 pm

^^^^

The more I think about the uses I have for a synth the more I think it is sound quality that matters most to me and not flexibility. As an experiment I've been using my sub 37 in panel mode and not using any of the functions that I would not have with a model d. My use of the sub 37 is as a bass instrument-- it is an instrument. Since I play in a live improvisational setting exclusively and the music is folksy jam music I cant really think of a function I have to have that isn't on the model d. For effects during our haunting stuff or even during our spacey jams all I really use is pitch bend, some LFO modulation, filter cutoff modulation, and octave shift (which will be trickier on the model d but doable). The rest is done by choosing the right notes that don't fit in a good way. :)

I think if I were doing electronic music the limited functionality of the model d might matter more to me but for my uses the model d is more flexible than a Rhodes bass piano or a bass guitar would be- drones, filter cut off, different wave forms to choose from and a wealth of other settings just give me a ton of range when compared to those other instruments.

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stiiiiiiive
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Re: Sub 37 vs Model D

Post by stiiiiiiive » Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:39 am

I get that.

Over the years, I've realized that functionalities, possibilities are not what I most use when playing. I just like the idea of being able to do many stuffs, but when it comes to playing, I become lazy/focused and pay more attention to tone and notes. Kind of back to essentials.

Though I feel I cannot get rid of that old fantasm of the beast of an instrument that can do so much. Even if I changed a K26XX for a Nord Electro, even if I chose not to go Sub37 and stick with LP - because of the sound mainly. It's weird how the mind can go in both directions.

Some day, I'll play bass lines in a rock/pop/folk band with only one synt :)

sub guy
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Re: Sub 37 vs Model D

Post by sub guy » Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:00 pm

To be fair I do also play two mother 32's in my band. If the model d works out Ill be getting rid of either the mother 32's or the sub 37 but not both. I still need a drone machine while playing baselines.

Stevie Ray
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Re: Sub 37 vs Model D

Post by Stevie Ray » Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:18 pm

sub guy wrote:To be fair I do also play two mother 32's in my band. If the model d works out Ill be getting rid of either the mother 32's or the sub 37 but not both. I still need a drone machine while playing baselines.
Do you have the new D now? How's it working out for you?

Super Hydro
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Re: Sub 37 vs Model D

Post by Super Hydro » Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:54 pm

I finally received my Model D and it definitely has a brighter and more powerful tone than the SUB 37. Its missing the bells and whistles of the SUB 37, but when it comes down to making tracks it sounds excellent. I put both through an oscilloscope and the Model D is very buzz at the peaks, as in the peaks are moving slightly differently than the waves. I think that shows how it has a different character than most.

sub guy
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Re: Sub 37 vs Model D

Post by sub guy » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:29 am

Stevie Ray wrote:
sub guy wrote:To be fair I do also play two mother 32's in my band. If the model d works out Ill be getting rid of either the mother 32's or the sub 37 but not both. I still need a drone machine while playing baselines.
Do you have the new D now? How's it working out for you?

I love the Model D. At first I wasn't so sure-- it sounds very different than the Sub 37 or the Mother 32's. I keep my rig small so am not willing to keep the Sub 37 and the Model D and chose the D. The D just has a really big sound and it is something that really stands out about it especially after you play it for a while. It just has a certain character that is incredible. Overall tone-wise it is superior to the Sub 37 IMO.

Two things I miss slightly about the sub 37 are the dark earthiness of its character, and its feedback and overdrive functions which sound superb. I've got an MF drive pedal on the way to hopefully make up for some of that.

ToneBub
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Re: Sub 37 vs Model D

Post by ToneBub » Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:33 pm

I'm sort of facing the same decision...

I already have a Sub37 and two mother32s and just received the reissue Minimoog a few days ago. The mother32s nicely complement a smallish Eurorack system I have, so I won't be getting rid of those. And I love the Sub37. It has a great sound overall and I really like using it's 'modern' capabilities, especially: Duo mode, dual LFOs, the sub oscillator, extensive modulation routing, continuously variable waveforms, the arpeggiator, easy sequencing, looping envelopes, being able saving patches that I'd hate to lose, etc. I have *no* intention of getting rid of it. My decision will be whether to keep the Model D. There was no way to try it out beforehand, so I ordered from a vendor who has a generous return policy. I am now putting it thru it's paces and will need to decide in the next week or so whether to keep it or return it.

I like the Model D a lot. It scratches an itch I had for a long time; I first saw/heard Minimoogs as a teenager in the 70s, but of course they were completely out of reach for me then. Of course it has a great sound overall, and I love the ease and simplicity of navigating around the panel. The new features are really nice to have: I use the new LFO all the time, so I can use Osc3 for fattening the sound or providing an extra detuned interval for chords. I love how easy it is to do great-sounding things with the 3-oscillator mix. It's great having the extra CV ins/outs on the panel. It provides extra modulation capabilities, and I'm able to use the D as a CV keyboard controller for a MU modular (55-space Synthesizers.com). It integrates very well with the modular system and the two complement each other well. As great as it sounds, and as much as I like it, It is nonetheless more limited IMO than the much newer Sub37 design. So, I'm wrestling with whether or not to keep it. I can afford to keep it, but still, $3500 is a lot to spend on something this 'optional' (considering the capabilities I already have with the Sub37, etc).

I have the Sub37 and model D side by side, running thru the same PA system. I already know there are things the Sub37 can do that the older model D design will not support. The question is, will the model D do things I can't get on the Sub37? There are certain round/fat/juicy/warm tones I can easily dial up on the D... So I suppose I'll begin putting together some of these Model D patches I really like, then try to replicate them on the Sub37 to see how close I can get. Should be interesting... I'm kind of rooting for the Model D! :wink:

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HookedOnSonics
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Re: Sub 37 vs Model D

Post by HookedOnSonics » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:33 pm

ToneBub wrote: So, I'm wrestling with whether or not to keep it. I can afford to keep it, but still, $3500 is a lot to spend on something this 'optional' (considering the capabilities I already have with the Sub37, etc).
It will be cool to hear your comparisons and read your insight on both. Personally I returned the 37, got the new D, got a VXL, and are anxiously awaiting the Phat Poly. Kinda cool to see if both 37 and D retain their value down the road, my sound banking is on the D ... :-).
Moog One - A SynthWar Story, SynthWars-The Rise of the Korg Apr2600, Vintage D 2016, Voyager of Sinbad XL, ClaraVox, FoogerFamilyOfSix, 3MothersLikeNoOthers, Kronos II - InstantKarma'sGonnaGetYou, Arp&theOdyssey, Naboo Royal MiniTaur, UniversalAudio&U67, Criklon, ElektronRytmAvenueMKII

sub guy
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Re: Sub 37 vs Model D

Post by sub guy » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:36 am

ToneBub wrote:I'm sort of facing the same decision...

I already have a Sub37 and two mother32s and just received the reissue Minimoog a few days ago. The mother32s nicely complement a smallish Eurorack system I have, so I won't be getting rid of those. And I love the Sub37. It has a great sound overall and I really like using it's 'modern' capabilities, especially: Duo mode, dual LFOs, the sub oscillator, extensive modulation routing, continuously variable waveforms, the arpeggiator, easy sequencing, looping envelopes, being able saving patches that I'd hate to lose, etc. I have *no* intention of getting rid of it. My decision will be whether to keep the Model D. There was no way to try it out beforehand, so I ordered from a vendor who has a generous return policy. I am now putting it thru it's paces and will need to decide in the next week or so whether to keep it or return it.

I like the Model D a lot. It scratches an itch I had for a long time; I first saw/heard Minimoogs as a teenager in the 70s, but of course they were completely out of reach for me then. Of course it has a great sound overall, and I love the ease and simplicity of navigating around the panel. The new features are really nice to have: I use the new LFO all the time, so I can use Osc3 for fattening the sound or providing an extra detuned interval for chords. I love how easy it is to do great-sounding things with the 3-oscillator mix. It's great having the extra CV ins/outs on the panel. It provides extra modulation capabilities, and I'm able to use the D as a CV keyboard controller for a MU modular (55-space Synthesizers.com). It integrates very well with the modular system and the two complement each other well. As great as it sounds, and as much as I like it, It is nonetheless more limited IMO than the much newer Sub37 design. So, I'm wrestling with whether or not to keep it. I can afford to keep it, but still, $3500 is a lot to spend on something this 'optional' (considering the capabilities I already have with the Sub37, etc).

I have the Sub37 and model D side by side, running thru the same PA system. I already know there are things the Sub37 can do that the older model D design will not support. The question is, will the model D do things I can't get on the Sub37? There are certain round/fat/juicy/warm tones I can easily dial up on the D... So I suppose I'll begin putting together some of these Model D patches I really like, then try to replicate them on the Sub37 to see how close I can get. Should be interesting... I'm kind of rooting for the Model D! :wink:
I am very interested in hearing what you decide and why. The Sub 37 is a hell of an instrument that is for sure. It took me a while to decide on the Mini over the Sub 37 (wont keep both) and I did so mainly because I thought the overall tone was better on the Mini but some of the features on the sub 37 are really nice to have. I ended up with an MF Drive to add to the Mini and that cinched it for me as far as getting all of the darker muffled bass and over driven treble tones out of the Mini that I was getting out of the Sub 37-- Not the same exact character of muffled bass or overdrive but still quality. The only thing I really still miss is the continuously variable wave forms available on the sub 37 but I think the sheer quality of sound coming out of the Mini trumps that feature. I dont use the sequencer so not missing that at all.

One thing you might try that would work great in the studio but is not practical for my live playing purposes is to run the audio out on the mini through the sub 37. This improves the modulation capabilities of the Mini greatly. You get both LFO's effecting the filter, the sub 37's rather darker filter and multiple filter slopes plus overedrive and feedback. It is a lot, and sounds wonderful.

I would say that each of these synths holds its own niche and place as valuable and powerful instruments.

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Re: Sub 37 vs Model D

Post by Stevie Ray » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:35 pm

sub guy wrote: I would say that each of these synths holds its own niche and place as valuable and powerful instruments.
Exactly. Most things that have come out of Moog over the years have been valuable instruments in some niche or other. I'm glad the new D suits your needs and I hope you have a real blast with it

I love the Sub 37 and the Voyager Old School, and having had a few classic Model Ds in the past, I don't really hanker after the new D at the current price.

I'm sure the quality of components and manufacture will be second to none, and I think the designers have made some very sensible improvements over the original (e.g. dedicated LFO) but have kept the essential character of the D intact. It's not a viable proposition for me at the moment purely from the cost point-of-view but good luck to all those who can afford it.

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Re: Sub 37 vs Model D

Post by sub guy » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:41 pm

Yeah man that is for sure. I have not heard a Voyager in person yet but that is supposed to be quite a synth also. I love the Sub 37's dark brown bass.

Stevie Ray
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Re: Sub 37 vs Model D

Post by Stevie Ray » Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:35 pm

sub guy wrote:Yeah man that is for sure. I have not heard a Voyager in person yet but that is supposed to be quite a synth also. I love the Sub 37's dark brown bass.
Yeah it's all "horses for courses". Everything fits some niche. I too like the bass on the Sub-37, how do you think it compares to the new D?

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Re: Sub 37 vs Model D

Post by TimeEchoProductions » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:42 pm

HookedOnSonics wrote:
ToneBub wrote: So, I'm wrestling with whether or not to keep it. I can afford to keep it, but still, $3500 is a lot to spend on something this 'optional' (considering the capabilities I already have with the Sub37, etc).
It will be cool to hear your comparisons and read your insight on both. Personally I returned the 37, got the new D, got a VXL, and are anxiously awaiting the Phat Poly. Kinda cool to see if both 37 and D retain their value down the road, my sound banking is on the D ... :-).
Have you messed around with controlling the D with the VXL and playing it as one monster?
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Re: Sub 37 vs Model D

Post by HookedOnSonics » Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:27 pm

TimeEchoProductions wrote:Have you messed around with controlling the D with the VXL and playing it as one monster?
Not yet, wanted to let folks enjoy their holiday weekend before I unravel the very fabric of the space-time continuum. With that said, we have been messing around with a setting on the H9's that repeats played notes from the Model D, when we kick it off, its starts with C, I then play E on the D and G on the XL and wam bam its ployman, in honor of Bowie and Gene Wilder ... It's ...ALive!!!

Now bring in the three Mothers and the Minitaur and Stadiums Start To Fall ... :-)
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