Impact of new model D on pricing of vintage Minimoog D

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cheopsnet
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Impact of new model D on pricing of vintage Minimoog D

Post by cheopsnet » Thu May 19, 2016 10:11 pm

Hi guys,

Curious to know what the gear heads are thinking of the production of new Minimoog model D. More specifically around 2 questions:

- Directionally, what do you think will be the impact on the vintage offering's price (i.e. 70's Minimoog)? I.e. cause a resurgence of interest for them and raise the price, or make it drop?

- Also what do you think of the production of the new Minimoog D relative to coming close to the real thing? There are some new cool features, but what about the roaring bass that the Minimoog got famous for? And what about the tuning issue that was an issue for the real thing?

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Louis

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Re: Impact of new model D on pricing of vintage Minimoog D

Post by luckynerd » Fri May 20, 2016 12:31 pm

1. I'm not gonna speculate, as I'm out of the vintage game.

2. From the video I've seen, the sound is perfect. Part of the reason for tuning problems was this area of matched resistors on the oscillator board that were later replaced with resistor arrays. It's 6 matched sets of 3 resistors. I used to sell a kit of new matched resistors that addressed this problem. Judging by the looks of the new oscillator board, they addressed that issue with .1% resistors. :D
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noddyspuncture
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Re: Impact of new model D on pricing of vintage Minimoog D

Post by noddyspuncture » Fri May 20, 2016 6:31 pm

I'd say a resurgence of interest... hopefully. The new 'D' is only being sold at Moogfest apparently, according to a Moog video I've seen - and they aren't making a lot of them. It could well push the vintage prices up... but won't lower them I wouldn't have thought..!

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HookedOnSonics
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Re: Impact of new model D on pricing of vintage Minimoog D

Post by HookedOnSonics » Fri May 20, 2016 8:10 pm

D-Day at Moogfest.

Its weird, we also thought that D was only being sold at MFest, then JSharp mentioned that Sweetwater was taken pre-orders and sure enough, we were able to lock one in at sweetwater last night.

I never understood why Moog abandon this in the first place. It was an affordable "MODULAR BOARD" player. A perfect "SOUND" niche in the music market . IMO it should have remained the flagship. I must be out of my mind, but i love the fact that it doesn't have a LCD. Except for our Korg Kronos and H9, everything else we have in the studio is LCD-less and i don't miss'em ... :-)
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Re: Impact of new model D on pricing of vintage Minimoog D

Post by slabwax » Fri May 20, 2016 9:52 pm

HookedOnSonics wrote:I never understood why Moog abandon this in the first place. It was an affordable "MODULAR BOARD" player. A perfect "SOUND" niche in the music market . IMO it should have remained the flagship.


I'm going to guess that when Dr Moog decided to get back into the game he decided that he should take this classic design and move forward with it. Technology had come a long way since the early 70's. So he made something that was more stable, had presets,more features/functions etc...

Why would customers want old tech 30 years later?

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Re: Impact of new model D on pricing of vintage Minimoog D

Post by EricK » Fri May 20, 2016 11:05 pm

I anticipate that reissues such as these and the modulars can potentially devalue the vintage units.
We're already dealing with ebay rapists who want to charge exorbitant amount of money for certain Moog products for arbitrary reasons. The Taurus I was routinely asking for around 4k when the T3 was announced, then those prices immediately went down when the reissue hit the streets.

But from what I understand about he development of the Model D, Bob HATED the idea because it took an instrument (the modular) based on a concept of exploration and simplified it down to the bare minimum. When it came time to create the Voyager, Bob and his team intentionally didn't remake the Model D because there were enough on the second-hand market. Plus, there wasn't an expectation that the Voyager was going to be that successful, and like the Model D, only a limited run was made.

Both the Model D and the Voyager were in production for over a decade, so there are a lot out there already. The Voyager market was already pretty saturated and sales were likely really slow, justifying discontinuation.

Give it until next month when some of these reissue Model D hit the streets, I suspect that Voyager prices will drop. Maybe it will be harder for d-bags on fleabay to justify asking 5k for a D. It could be good for someone looking to purchase a D, but bad for people who own these units who like to see their synth hold its value or appreciate.

I'm just going to regularly play my 1978 model D and it will probably outlast me.


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Re: Impact of new model D on pricing of vintage Minimoog D

Post by HookedOnSonics » Sat May 21, 2016 1:06 am

SlabWax wrote: Why would customers want old tech 30 years later?


Weird right, yet the sound board of the Model D just stood the test of time, as current for musicians now and it was then ...raw simplicity. Plus how cool is the added MIDI in/out/thru and CV.
Last edited by HookedOnSonics on Sat May 21, 2016 1:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Impact of new model D on pricing of vintage Minimoog D

Post by HookedOnSonics » Sat May 21, 2016 1:31 am

EricK wrote - sort of: We're already dealing with ebay folks who want to charge exorbitant amount of money for certain Moog products


Its crazy. Some folks treat instruments like there wall street stock, that's just silly. The prices we saw for MoogerFooger delays going for were/are silly and anyone that would pay those prices are really silly.
Last edited by HookedOnSonics on Sat May 21, 2016 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Impact of new model D on pricing of vintage Minimoog D

Post by minimax » Sat May 21, 2016 6:48 am

Must admit this came as a bit of a shock. I only heard about it when I got the email from Moog Music re post production. As the owner of both a Model D and Voyager keyboard I am unsure of impact.
One perspective is that it offers more people access to a distinctive sound at a reasonable price with new tech reliability. I love my model D and I love my Voyager and not intending to sell either anytime soon. However I would hope the prices do not drop as a result. It is unclear if the intention is to move to mass production. I have to admit I have been a bit concerned about the direction of travel re Moog and its products. Some of the new gear looks a bit flimsy. This development might be just the thing!
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Re: Impact of new model D on pricing of vintage Minimoog D

Post by sunny pedaal » Sat May 21, 2016 11:38 am

no,
don't think prices will drop
why?
1 the new one isn't the old one, give it some time and we'll agree on that.( doesn't neccessary have to be afcourse but the challenge is very high...)
i've seen it with all reissues so far: ms20, arp, buchla, jp8, synthi's rehberg and robin woods etc , diverse minimoogclones etc
2 don't think there will be 1000's made, so with much more then several 1000's old ones left the price will not be affected
3 lot of people will prefer the old one , call it nostalgia or whatever.
4 question if the new ones will be fit to stand time and servicing repair as well as the old ones ? soldered to repair, quality of pots etc
etc
what will happen is that the "stockmarket rise" will be topped and slowed for some time, which is a good thing as prices of 6-8k where becoming "normal"
after some month's/ 1-2 years, however even more people will be interested in minimoogs and prices will rise further probably.
the old ms20 are also almost going back to prices of 1000-1300 for the vintage models despite all the mini's and other derivates produced in big numbers over the last few years. lots of new generation interest has been created for the ms20 sound and thereby owning one of those real vintage ms20's will not fade , on the contrary.

i think it's a brave and good thing that moog finally took up the glove and produces a a near as possible model-d. who else could do it better?
if you want one , go for it while they last, if you have and old one, don't start selling but play it even more
i will

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Re: Impact of new model D on pricing of vintage Minimoog D

Post by EricK » Sat May 21, 2016 1:48 pm

Sunny,
You might be right. With the examples you listed there are some counterpoints...
Most of the reissues are smaller units, the TTSH included. The Buchla company is in trouble and have had issues since the acquisition and with quality control problems with the Easels. Stuff like this precludes these products from many people's consideration.
EMS likely represents a super niche market, and the new VCS3s are going to probably be more scarce than the vintage units (I'm on the list).

Who has really cloned the Minis though? There is the one kickstarter but it's eurorack and has no keyboard controller, right? There was another guy who cloned the full-size unit but it wasn't clear if those were for sale or not.

Some people have issues with the power brick and ribbons, I tend to agree that while the sound may be there, the keyboard feeling definitely won't be.

Maybe they will pull a SE and release a rackmount midimini.

All we can do is speculate though. I'm just glad I have mine.
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HookedOnSonics
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Re: Impact of new model D on pricing of vintage Minimoog D

Post by HookedOnSonics » Sat May 21, 2016 2:07 pm

Ladies and Gentleman, please put your Seats, Trays, and Model D's in the upright position and enjoy the vibe. We predict this board to surpass the sales of the Mothers ... Sorry mom.
Last edited by HookedOnSonics on Sun May 22, 2016 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Impact of new model D on pricing of vintage Minimoog D

Post by sunny pedaal » Sat May 21, 2016 2:29 pm

also that of the sub37 ? that one already is great
overall the reinvention of the t3 was one giant step forward in the moogsound i love most. ( mho)

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Re: Impact of new model D on pricing of vintage Minimoog D

Post by thealien666 » Sat May 21, 2016 4:15 pm

Since the PCBs were carefully cloned, down to using the exact same discrete components, there is no reason why this re-issue wouldn't sound as good as the vintage ones.

This is no SMT wannabe with cheap minikeys for kids. This is a full blown clone (with added bonus features, carefully chosen and implemented). The only drawback is that external PSU, but that's a minor one.

And yes, it will probably have a beneficial effect on the current overpricing of vintage ones on EvilBay.

All good news for analog gear!
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Re: Impact of new model D on pricing of vintage Minimoog D

Post by Stevie Ray » Sat May 21, 2016 10:28 pm

Frankly, if the new D sounds anywhere near as good as the original, I'd get the new one. Vintage Model Ds are just hell to maintain.

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